to really not get why people co-sleep?

[LaLaLaLayla]

I really do not understand why people co-sleep. Apart from research telling us how dangerous it is for the baby, I also feel a bit sorry for the poor husbands who are almost invariably turfed out of the marital bed to make room for them.

What is the point? Is there one? Is anyone else as baffled as me by this?

LaLa, you have done all this research but did you know that the risk of SID increases a lot if a) you smoke b) you drink heavily. Also, in terms of absolute risk, the risk of death it is actually quite low.

The way I see it is that co-sleeping is a calculated risk (along with most other things). The first question to ask yourself if co-sleeping is a) am I drunk / on heavy medication, if not, will me and my baby sleep better. For me the answer was yes. I found with both of my babies, in the early days, the only way to get a decent night's sleep and to not feel tired was to co-sleep.

Re. the overheating issue - if they were asleep next to me I would just put them in a little t-shirt and a small blanket to cover their legs (or in the middle of summer nothing). The feeling of a sleeping baby next to you is just so divine and it is real skin-to-skin contact.

To the poster who said her child wouldnt take a dummy-you clearly werent pushing it in hard enough....

LaLaLaLayla Very very sorry for your loss. I have obviously judged you with knowing you background.

Layla my first child died 4 months into the pregnancy. The memory of his mangled little tiny body still haunts me, I wish I'd never seen him, then I hate myself for wishing that. That was 15 years ago. It's taken me a long time to be able to even admit that it happened.

Eventually I came to accept that there doesn't have to be an answer as to why Oliver died. There doesn't have to be a crusade I can wage on the evil that stole him from me. There doesn't have to be a line I can cling to to make it not my fault. He is what he is, a person whose life was unusually short. It's not my fault. There isn't a reason. And that's Ok.

I x posted too. I'm sorry to read of your loss. It would be helpful if you could try and give the complete picture when you start posting though. Your loss is clearly relevant and important to your feelings on this issue.

OP, I'm not sure who you mean by the people giving the advice. Your mum? The Daily Mail?
You are not alone in having got the wrong end of the stick about co-sleeping, and you are not uniquely gullible if you have believed newspaper headlines from ill informed hacks.

If you don't use this opportunity to re-educate yourself then you've let yourself down. Research is publically available on the internet. Read some of that and reach your own conclusions instead of listening to other people's advice.

FSIDs give "one size fits all advice" because they are reluctant to explain about how to co-sleep safely; no drugs, don't be drunk, not on a sofa etc. We are all apparently too dim to be able to absorb such rules. Ironically, many more rules are given about cot sleeping, which blankets, feet to foot, back-lying, room temperature, baby monitors, dummies etc.

I sometimes wonder whether the advice to put all babies in a cot has actually caused harm to vulnerable babies who would have been safer co-sleeping properly.

X posted here too, and I'm sorry for your loss.

But in time I hope you will be able to separate the bad advice you have been given from your own tragic experience.

Co-sleeping is not more dangerous than cot sleeping. When practised with basic common sense safety precautions, it may even be safer than cot sleeping.

OP, I'm not sure who you mean by the people giving the advice. Your mum? The Daily Mail? You are not alone in having got the wrong end of the stick about co-sleeping, and you are not uniquely gullible if you have believed newspaper headlines from ill informed hacks.

Acutally no, it was the FSID. I used to speak to them on the phone regularly after my child died when I felt I couldn't cope. We did some fundraising for them. There was also a FSID support group in my area and I was quite active in that. The research at the time very clearly pointed to co-sleeping as being a major risk factor.

No, OP, you are wrong.

The research I think you are referring to completely failed to separate out factors like smoking, drugs, alcohol, sofa sleeping, obesity and so on. It included all of these unsafe practices under the title co-sleeping. Which is as unfair and misleading as using a risk factor such as front-lying statistics to represent cot sleeping.

You haven't linked to any actual research but I'm guessing I know the study you mean.

My love, you need to do what makes you comfy.

You are right verylittlecarrot, they did not separate out the additional risk factors. However, the FSID are still saying that co-sleeping is especially dangerous if you are drunk, on drugs, etc. They do not say it is safe. In fact, they say that "The safest place for your baby to sleep is in a crib or cot in a room with you for the first six months."

No organisation can ever say somthing is absolutely safe - or absolutely dangerous. It's only ever a probability. Co-sleeping in certain circumstances has been associated with SIDS. A cause is not determined. Assoociation is NOT the same as causation. I think that deciding not to co-sleep is perfectly valid. I think deciding to co-sleep is also perfecty valid. There is really no need to be so absolute about what people can or cannot choose to do.

Layla I get why you've got an anti-co-sleeping crusade going on. In time I hope you will come to accept that it's not necessary to find a culprit to convict and hang just for your own wellbeing.

We co-sleepers are not the enemy. You lost your baby because it was his/her time. Sadly there is nothing more anyone can say or do about that. I think there is probably not a member on this whole thread who wouldn't turn back time for you if we could. Nothing can change what has gone before.

Losing a child is probably the most "wrong" feeling thing that can ever happen and yes of course you want to make it right some how. Time, grief counselling and acceptance really help. Crusading gives you a distraction, but it's not really making the hurt go away, it's just directing it at something else, someone else, at us.

It's forgiveable, grieving is hard enough, worse still when there's no one to blame at all but yourself. That's when grief turns outwards, when you feel guilty, especially if you feel guilty and it's not logical, at least logical guilt isn't confusing. Guilt isn't always logical. In truth you have no reason to hold yourself (or by proxy any of us) to account. Mostly though I'm concerned about you. I could be well up the wrong tree with this but... Still hurts doesn't it?

I am so sorry (s)he's gone. Losing a child is awful.

Sorry for your loss op. I think for your own sanity, stop worrying about those who do choose to cosleep and follow the recommendations for your family. I don't think you came here to cause trouble, I think you are heartbroken and retrospective, but people will always choose their own path. Good luck to you xxx

MJlovesscareypants, it's not about me. I just can't bear the thought of any other family going through what we have been through. And to be honest, I am still not convinced that co-sleeping is safe. I would (very genuinely) be interested in reading any scientific research to the contrary. As I said, we are trying for a baby and I would like to be as prepared as possible.

I guess my OP was a bit tongue-in-cheek; I had no intention of sharing such personal information.

I know what FSIDs say. And I'm afraid that I'm not alone in thinking that on this particular matter, they are being both unscientific and irresponsible.

I am certain that some mothers are too terrified as a result of advice like this to safely co-sleep, and wretchedly attempt to feed their babies sitting upright in a chair or sofa in the middle of the night, falling asleep anyway. THAT is a dangerous situation.

If even safe co-sleeping was a risk factor in SIDS, then countries where more co-sleeping happens would have higher incident rates of SIDS.

They have lower.

If you want scientific info Layla, google McKenna or Blair in relation to recent quality co-sleeping research.

Yes, I agree verylittlecarrot - Countries that co-sleep as the norm have lower SIDS death rates than the UK, and other countries where co-sleeping is not the cultural norm.

THAT should be a good starting point for you to realise that co-sleeping is actually safer than not co-sleeping IF DONE PROPERLY.

I am very sorry for your loss, LaLaLaLayla. I'm sure that nothing you did was to blame for the loss of your baby.

Was your baby in a cot or co-sleeping with you? Have you read any research about Kangaroo care for premature babies? The benefits are the same for older babies too.

You do know, that however you chose to sleep with your next baby, you can get an apnoea alarm to reassure you? (Though, to be fair, they go off at every fart and burp, having used one myself)