to think this poster is a heap of sexist woman-blaming SHIT?

[QueenOfFlamingEverything]

Here - a nice bit of misogynism from the police in Wales.

How about a big poster suggesting helpfully "Rape. Don't be a rapist. Use your dick sensibly. Rapists feature in 100% of rapes??"

I think being able to anonymously report would help. Not press charges, but report that a rape has occurred and get any help you need to deal with it.

Might give more accurate figures too...

it is true that 2/3 of rapes involve alcohol, it is NOT true that 2/3 of rape involve the woman being drunk.

But they are not asserting part 2, you are.

However, just reading people's rape stories on the 2 threads this morning, its interesting how many of them did happen when the woman had had too much alcohol.

And young. Most women are raped when they are young and inexperienced.

Trick IMO is to get 10 years of life experience into a 16 year old's head, just when they feel most immortal and won't take advice from anyone.

Every little bit helps IMO.

But what certainly doesn't help is wringing your hands and wailing that because its impossible to give advice for all circumstances, you should not give any advice at all.

I said it happened a few years ago. I wasn't 16-20.

I do completely understand why people are saying that this poster is 'blaming women' for being raped. I also understand why it causes outrage.

However, the problem is that this poster is really trying to send a message which says: 'Drink sensibly, don't put yourself needlessly at risk'.

I don't think that is a bad message but the problem is that is also unwittngly sends the other message which people on this thread are reading which says 'If you drink too much it is your fault if you get raped.'

The message that the poster intends to send is sensible advice, but it comes across to many readers as saying something else which they strongly object to and the intent of the poster is lost. That is the risk of all advertsing and especially simple posters that don't have room to explain a nuanced message.

It may have been better if the poster had shown both a man and woman and listed a series of risks that are increased with alcohol. For example, it is far more likely that you wil be hit by a car when crossing the road if you are drunk. You are also far more likely to be mugged, die of hypothermia, choke on your own vomit, be subjected to violence ....... and be raped.

Probelm is that it could be said that any kind of poster that sends any of those messages about the risk of alcohol might appear to absolve car drivers, muggers and manufacturers of alcohol in general.

no florries, you are brave. you have dealt with this in the way that is best for you. conviction rates for rape tell us loud and clear that had you reported you rape you would have been very unlikely to get a conviction. self preservation is a very strong instinct and no-one can ever blame you for following that.

FWIW no-one know i was abused as a child (not raped) except the person that did it of course. maybe, morally i should have reported it to prevent him doing it to other children but to reveal it would do far more damage to me and my family than i am willing to let him do.

This thread is going nowhere. It always happens when the MN feminists have an awayday to AIBU. Round and round and round.

If you go out and get pissed up out of control you are at a higher risk of being raped by an opportunist - whether that opportunist is someone you know or someone you dont.

This is FACT. If you think its a myth, back your belief up with stats or tootle off back to the fem section where they enjoy theorising with what-ifs.

Honestly - its abundantly clear to anyone with even the slightest grounding in reality what this police poster is about, what its trying to do, and why its not judging people who have been raped.

"We" (society/parents) should advise, but based on facts and not myths. And that advice should be given to everyone, regardless of their sex.

No wringing of hands, just the truth.

For a nation that seems to view heavy drinking as a national pastime I am amazed that so many seem to think that telling women not to join in in case some evil fucker of a rapist decides to have his way with them is reasonable.

How about telling men not to have sex with women who either don't want to have sex with them or aren't able to say no? Or is that too ambiguous?

whatmeworry, if they are not asserting that 2/3 of rapes involve drunk women then why have they only a woman on the picture? why have they only directed the advice at women in a 'drink sensibly' way? why haven't they put a man on the poster and given him directions too saying "dont be a rapist" teh same way they have told women not to choose to be raped?

lassylass What about my epilepsy? Should I never be alone with anyone?
I could "go" at any time, no warning.

Without drinking I can very easily be in the company of people I don't know and lose conciousness.

Lassy,
I have never seen one poster telling women not to marry as that greatly increases their chances of being raped. I have never seen one poster telling women not to become pregnant despite the fact a woman is most likely to be murdered when pregnant of leaving a relationship. In America the leading cause of death for pregnant women is murder. I have not seen one poster telling men that non-consensual sex is rape. Men who rape women are given a huge amount of sympathy in the press so long as they rape women they know or are in a social situation. And of course people shut down the conversation as soon as people say this is wrong by claiming that it is a feminist attitude as if being a feminist is worse than being a rapist, and that masculanists are pro-rape. I want to see posters telling people that if there is no yes, you are a rapist. I want to see a poster why a male is portrayed as the victim of rape, just to make rape justifiers stop in their tracks. That would be easy to do.

And lets remember it was the welsh police force that pushed for a prosecution of a rape victim for saying she had not been raped.

whatmeworry, if they are not asserting that 2/3 of rapes involve drunk women then why have they only a woman on the picture

Or they could have put a woman on the picture because its mostly women that get raped? And in most cases when alcohol is involved?

Just maybe?

Ok florriesdragon.

I'll agree to the poster about the dangers of rape when having an epileptic fit, if you'll agree to the poster warning women not to get so hammered that they are seen as a target for opportunist rapists.

yes mostly women get raped, but women get zero choice in that. it is the rapists that have the choice so why direct a poster telling women to do something/alter their behaviour implying that by doing so they will suddenly change the mind of the rapist? and that if they dont alter their behaviour well then, "what can you expect my love, you were drunk, silly girl"

lassy,
Its seizure, not fit, as someone with epilepsy i find the term fit really offensive. And are you saying women with epilepsy should not go out as it is just as dangerous as being drunk. If you think being drunk is dangerous surely you believe having a seizure is dangerous. And again, it is not "what if", if you tell your daughter to get into a stable relationship you are giving her advcie thta greatly increases her chance of getting raped. 80% of rapes occur when you know the rapist. Most rapes are committed by the victims partner or ex partner, at home.
And worry,
I thought you were saying we should concentrate on the minority of cases i.e stranger rape, so why put women on the poster if they make up the majority of cases.

Apologies kelly I wrote "fit" upthread.

Am just at lassy...

Ok Lassylass - even just a couple of drinks can impair judgment and lower inhibitions so how much exactly is a safe amount for a women to drink before she increases the risk of rape? As I asked upthread - should all women become teetotal to avoid rape? If that, unlikely as it is, did happen do you think 2/3 of rapes would cease to happen?

the point is lassy there are so many scenarios in which women are raped that it would be ridiculous to have a poster aimed at each one (being 80 is a risk, being a friend of a man is a risk being ina public loo is a risk, being in your home stone cold sober is a risk) however the one common factor of all rapes is that they are done by rapists. why is this not the thing that the money is being spent on? why are the police focusing on just one of the many many scenarios in which women are raped? there are a million and 1 things you could say to women by way of 'advice' to prevent themselves being raped the reality is that only 1 thing will stop women being raped and that is when rapists stop raping. it is not acceptable to rape there is no justification for rape ever, rape is a crime is a crime is a crime it's about bloody time the powers that be drove that message home to all of society that rape is unacceptable, it's time that good men stood up and told their mate in the pub that what he did last week was rape that girl when she was 'so out of it she couldn't tell what i was doing to her', it's time that fb pages making a joke out of rape were shut down and the creators faced charges it's time that women can fight off a man trying to grope her in a crowded club without her freinds laughing and saying "wow, bit of an overreaction there booyhoo" (yep happened to me).

fuck off kelly2000, and fuck off again

how dare you insinuate I am perpretating certain misogynistic attitudes

I have an opinon, based on my experiences, based on what happended to me when a young girl.

UGH

Perhaps they should put up a poster warning women with learning difficulties to stay indoors altogether.

Another vunerable group of people.

Personally I think a poster saying 'If you rape someone your dick will be cut off'
would be more appropriate and possibly have more of an impact on crime figures. Only if the threat was carried out though.

I expect that breaches the naice standards expected of me on MN though.

Why does this have to turn into a feminist bashing festival with "fuck offs" flying?

Porca
You are out of order. I am sorry, if this thread has brought up things in your past that you find distressing but to attack another poster for simply stating her views is just not on.

Why is it so difficult to get a rapist convicted? Because women are told that if they take care and don't drink, don't wear short skirts, then they will be safe.

And if they do get raped, and have been drinking, wearing short skirts or revealing clothes they either don't bother reporting (because they fear not being believed) or report and are not believed.

The one follows the other. Warning about drinking leading to rape gives the impression that a woman will be told, "Well, you were warned"

lindor, whatherface made a suggestion that was really really offensive, to me
thats why I replied as I did. Its not her opinion about the issue in general, its what she said about me

this thread has not upset me at all, I just happen to think girls should be aware and take care of themselves. and telling them this (not that I agree with poster per se) seems to offend some people

whatever! words on a screen

but you have raised your point more elquently that others on here, look the poster is a SHIT idea, but the message behind it has some rationale thats all I am saying

I think girls should take care of themselves, too, I don't think it's a good idea to get completely drunk at all.
For example, more likely to hurt themselves through falling over, losing possessions, having regrettable (but not rape) one-night stands which may result in pregnancy and std's. Falling asleep on the pavement and getting hypothermia.
But all of these things are within the control of the girls themselves.

Being raped is not. That's somebody else's control, not their's.

The feminists are right on this one. The only way that the possibility of rape can ever be avoided is avoiding men forever.

Why give women a false sense of security in that if they do 'a' or 'b' they'll be OK? It doesn't work like that.

boasting, great post on the questioning of a robbery victim.

I hate all those 'well, you wouldn't leave your front door open' false analogies. As others have said, you can't hide the fact you have a vagina. Unless the 'WOMEN keep off the streets' brigade think we should all wear men's suits and brogues and bind our breasts flat to go out of an evening?

(Florries - glad you are ok after sharing your terribly traumatic experience. Your posts are powerful and insightful even if you don't fully realise that. You cope how you cope and by your admission you're in a happy place so that is wonderful. I do hope karma has worked its magic on these 'men' who felt entitled to brutally (casually?) abuse and hurt you)