to think this poster is a heap of sexist woman-blaming SHIT?

[QueenOfFlamingEverything]

Here - a nice bit of misogynism from the police in Wales.

How about a big poster suggesting helpfully "Rape. Don't be a rapist. Use your dick sensibly. Rapists feature in 100% of rapes??"

yes, I think it's easier Booyhoo

minimiss - you seem to know or assume a lot about how these men think, I'm not sure it's true. Have been out with friends yet ambushed in the crowded loos of pubs and clubs, more than once actually, by men I haven't even noticed or spoken to who were somehow under the impression I was coming on to them! They and the train pests are the least scary encounters of all, because there is no or v little doubt in my mind about my conduct towards them.

The really dangerous situations and the role of alcohol, I'm not sure about. There's definitely a switch in my brain that flicks to 'freeze and comply' very easily but I don't have to be drunk, just cornered.

anyway as far as I know there are no helpful posters or campaigns advising me on how to override that auto flick of the switch

mini true, but you can do everything 'right' and you can still be raped

but what can you do about the 80% of women who are raped by the men that they know?

blackout you can direct the posters at the rapists.

clearly defining that having sex with your wife while she is sleeping is rape, that carrying on when your partner says "i want to stop now" is rape, that holding that woman by the arms, refusing to let her get away and having sex with her when she says she has changed her mind and doesn't want a one night stand is rape, that scaring your partner so much with the threat of hurting her children so that she lies silently while you penetrate her is rape. and so many other scenarios. basically the point needs to be made loud and clear so that nobody is in any doubt that sex with an unwilling person is not sex it is rape!.

Haven't read any but the OP, but I'm seething at that poster!!!

heres i agree with you 100%

thats what has really pissed me off with that poster. why can't we have posters saying that no means no aimed at MEN

exactly what i want to know. there is a budget set aside for this type of advertising so why oh why, when faced with an 80% of known to victim rape statistic do thes police decide to focus that budget on the 9% of stranger rape and aiming it at the victims?

because its easier to blame the woman isn't it (just look at some of the posts on here)

if only she didn't do xy and z then she'll be safe from that man who can't control his dick

But blackout in South Wales there are "no means no" posters on display in mens loos, I posted this earlier...

Still a bit pointless, a rapist doesnt stop raping cause a poster told him so.

Lovely post windsorTides, but just not going to happen anytime soon. Top marks for your idealism though.

Meanwhile back in the real world, posters that warn women of the rape dangers associated with being stupidly drunk should be applauded, as every opportunist rape they prevent is a win. And the do prevent rape.

'this is a really interesting thread. Mme Lindor, and Narky, your posts have really made me think.'

Dont think too hard on it though JamieComeHome, or you might overthink the subject to the point that you see a police campaign warning women about rape risk in certain situations as 'misogynism'.

the thing is beyond. there is for more to it than 'no means no' . for starters, the absence of yes means no. 'no means no' perpetuates this idea that it's only rape if the woman actually says no and you carry on. but we are all smart enough to know that far too often, rape is happening and being justified specifically because he didn't get a 'no'!

the posters need to make it clear that yes means yes and anything else means no. tehy also need to state that if you chose to rape someone you are accepting a maximum life sentance for rape.

Of course everyone is right who says teaching young boys (and girls) about what constitutes rape/consent and challenging and deconstructing misplaced sexual entitlement etc is key.

But I must stick up for the posters who are simply trying to say don't we/shoudn't we all take steps to protect ourselves? Surely there's nothing wrong in saying don't get utterly smashed, don't wander off on your own or do anything to make yourself vulnerable? I'll be telling my daughter that as soon as she's old enough to understand. Because until the resources are there to educate and counsel the young, there will be men who rape.

As for the poster, I'm on the fence...it is clumsy and has offended many understandably but was, I think, well intentioned.

I'll be honest, I dont know the exact wording, I've tried finding it on google but DH is the one who told me so not sure what to search for...

Lassylass
What on earth is there in Windsor's post that is "idealism" or unlikely to be implemented any time soon? I am truly bemused by your patronising answer to a very well thought out comment.

focus on the truth that the vast majority of rapes are carried out by a known assailant - why not? It is truth.

Give women the confidence to label their experiences as rape - again, what is the problem with that?

Teach teenagers about consent and what constitutes rape - are you assuming that all teenagers know this? How many young girls are pressured into having sex, who would not call it "rape" even though it is one.

Link this to a campaign that will counter the expectation that all boys will use porn - ok, slightly more contentious but not so far of the mark to be laughable

Conduct a nationwide campaign about what constitutes rape and reinforce that message by encouraging more crime reporting and securing more convictions - why not? Why should we not encourage women to report rape? Why not strengthen the rights of women, and so protect them?

In all this, focus on the assailant and defeating the culture that he is somehow entitled to have sex, because he is a man - more idealogical, but something that can be talked about in schools surely.

And for all of us to stop perpetuating rape myths and the erroneous view that women can prevent it happening, by altering our behaviour.

Ok, there are a few points there that are arguable, but in the main they are very good points. Particularly the teaching of teenagers about rape and abuse.

I actually think that they should teach teenagers about abuse and domestic violence. And touch on controlling people (not just men), and how to recognise them, and avoid them. The "red flag" that we talked of earlier.

I didn't read the poster as blaming women for rape by way of getting drunk, more of a 'keep your wits about you so you're less vulnerable'. For example, you may find you're less likely to take risks whilst sober (or more sober) and more alert to your surroundings. Whilst sober you're surely more likely to stay with friends and find a safe way of getting home, than if you're drunk, lost your bag/phone/purse and end up walking home as there's no other choice?

sorry am showing my ignorance on the subject

only rl experiance i've had is that there was a large number of rapes in my area. everyone was blaming the women saying things like 'well she shouldn't be out at that time of night', 'wonder what she was wearing that led him on'. 'she must have been asking for it'

NOT ONE PERSON said anything bad about the man who was raping these women!!!

ProudnScary
I do protect myself as far as I can, but this poster suggests that women should not go out and have a drink because they are putting themselves in harms way.

And that is simply rubbish.

Yes, everyone should drink sensibly, women and men. To stop bad things happening to them. And if they had a poster about that then I would applaud it.

I could go into town, get roaring drunk and fall into the lake. I could get drunk and walk in front of a bus. I could trip over my handbag and break my wrist. All due to fact that I was pissed as a newt.

Why don't we have posters warning about that?

Where are the posters warning young men that if they go out on the town and get pissed, they may get into a fight and end up in hospital?

Life is risky, we don't need a poster to warn us about it.

A few people are saying "A rapist will see a 'don't rape' poster and not take any notice so it's a waste of time". Fair point, but decent men will see the poster and take it on board. This will, in turn, create a culture where rape is less tolerated.

Most men think rape is abhorrent, but a lot of otherwise decent men (and a lot of women, judging by this thread) think that not all rapes are actually rapes, such as the man who coerces his wife into having sex, the man who takes advantage of a tipsy friend who has a history of 'putting it about'.

A poster campaign about the issue of consent aimed at these decent men may open their eyes and get them to condemn the behaviour of other men who aren't decent. In turn, this creates less tolerance of sexual crimes against women, and the incidence of rape is definitely influenced by degree of social acceptance and wider cultural norms. Make rape completely socially unacceptable (including the examples I've mentioned above) and the rape incidence would plummet to the small number of men who are actually sociopathic or mentally ill in some way.

Men who rape don't take notice of women or posters, but they do take notice of other men, people whom they consider their peers. Which is why a poster campaign aimed at men would probably be more effective than one aimed at women.

I'm in South Wales and I was raped a few years back. I was at a house party with friends and drunk. I went up to use the toilet and woke up in a bedroom (not sure how I got there, now believe that I was probably spiked, though I also have epilepsy so I could have had a fit)

I woke to find three men raping me.

They were friends of my best friends boyfriend, people I knew and had been socialising with for months beforehand. He was in on it. He told my best friend that I wanted it, came into the room laughing at one point, having left her downstairs. My memory is very hazy, but I distinctly remember him saying that he "didn't want a go as I was disgusting".

I am very glad that I was drunk and that my memory is hazy at best.

I felt at the time it was my partly fault as I was drunk so I couldn't fight them off.
But as it was, drunk or not, waking up to find three men on top of me and inside me, I just froze.
I always thought I'd fight in this situation. I'm a fighter. But I just lay there.

As I've said, they were friends. There was no reason prior to my rape for me to think I couldn't be alone with them. I wasn't walking down a dark alley. I wasn't even technically alone with anyone.

I didn't report it, precisely because I was drunk (this poster was out at the time) I knew that people would say it was my fault. And not believe me. My best friend was easily persuaded by them, what chance did I have of convincing the police?
(We no longer speak by the way. My instant coping mechanism was to go along with her thought that I wanted it. But that got too hard eventually)

That is just terrible, florries. I am so sorry you experienced that.

I am a regular poster AF
But I don't want there to be any way of my family finding out so I've name changed for this
:(

Oh, Florries. :(

Bastards.

florries, so sorry for you.