To allow these kids to be taken into care?

[RebelFromTheWaistDown]

Long story. I hope you can make some sense of this.

I have 2DDs age 18 and19 I have brought up alone since they were toddlers.
Their father has come in and out of their lives as he pleased and is now married with 2 DS's age 4 and 7.

DD1(19yo) has recently started a new job after a few months of unemployment. She got a call yesterday morning from her father's wife (SM) who was in tears as she was about to get on a plane to visit relatives abroad for 2 weeks, she had left her children at school to be collected by their father and he had left home and was unable to be contacted. He had told his wife that he would not be there for the kids so she had better come home. DD tried to contact him but he is also ignoring her.

DD asked her boss if she could leave work earlier to collect the children from the after school club and get the key from a neighbour to take the kids home. This is costing DD in wages as well as bus fare for a 15 mile journey to their house.

SM asked DD to take care of her DCs for the 2 weeks while she was away. DD said she would leave work early to collect them Tuesday (yesterday) and Wednesday but she would not be able to get them this Thursday as she is going to see Erasure in concert with me. Also it is half term next week and DD is worried about jeopardising her new job. SM told her that if her father had not returned home by this Thursday that she would get an emergency flight home.

DD1 has now roped in DD2(18) who is due to return home from uni this Thursday to stay with the DCs on Thursday night while we go to the concert. She has also arranged for the DCs to stay at my sister's house (the DCs have never met her) on Friday night as DD2 has a job over here too. Now the SM is saying she can't get a flight home until Sunday or Monday.

My DDs are very upset and stressed in this situation that they cannot cope with. I have pleaded with DD to contact Social Services to tell them the DCs have been abandoned. She has now done this but has told them she is looking after the DCs because she doesn't want them taken into care. I have asked her why she is so worried about that - she is obviously unable to cope with them herself. She says it is because the DCs were not born in this country. I don't understand what that has got to do with it!

I have not seen DD face to face yet. All my contact with DD has been by phone as I work long hours. I will see her tomorrow. I think she would be best to let SS take over. AIBU?

Yes doesn't anyone have his number? Or know where he'll be?

Rebel's said that he wouldn't answer the phone to his oldest daughter, after telling the children's mother he wouldn't look after them. I doubt he's going to step up to the plate now.

Yes, why hasn't anyone been in touch with Dad...is it the case that he is so appalling the boys are better off without him? Why hasn't anyone contacted him? Why is no-one insiting to SM that she come home NOW? Is she awful too?

And can people please stop having a go at the op. She doesn't sound heartless and is probably shocked and wondering what the hell to do, as we all would be in this situation.

The OP is getting a real kicking here and imo she doesn't deserve it. This is the internet - you can't hear her tone of voice as she types - perhaps it was an unfortunate choice of words but the bottom line is that these two boys have been abandoned by their parents, and the OPs DDs are having to deal with the problem to the detriment of their jobs. This is manifestly unfair and sets a precedence that they have stepped up once, so the same trick may be pulled again.

The Dad is wrong to have buggered off, but the Mum is also wrong in carrying on with her trip knowing that there was no adequate failsafe plan in place for her dcs. In my world, you just don't do that.

I don't think the op IS shrugging off the welfare of these kids, but is trying to find an outcome that is best for the kids and her dds and who can blame her?

where exactly is the mother and why did she go
who has the fathers phone number or point of contact
some how there seems to be a bit we are not being told here

And if I was the daughter I wouldn't want to hand care of the children back to the father who has proven so feckless anyway!

Honestly, talk to you DD, SS won't just spirit the boys away, if she's prepared to look after them with help, they'll probably help sort out wrap around childcare so she can work and then do the caring.

More importantly, they need to know, because what if next time she can't do it? Both parents need to realise this is their responsibility, they are equally at fault and need to understand this isn't an acceptable situation.

The father, quite frankly, needs a serious kick up the arse - he seems to be prepared to allow his oldest child to potentially lose her job in order that he can do... what exactly? what is more important than caring for his children? ALL of his children?

There should be a time period set and if she hasn't given a clear date to return home, then SS should be contacted. This in the long run will mean less disruption for the children.

By law you can only care for someone's children for 28 days, then SS have to be informed, to oversee the process.

Well meany relatives oftenstep in, to do what they think is the besyt for the children but all they do is actually allow the children to suffer neglect, as the parents behaviour doesn't get any better.

If the children have an accident in your DD's care then this could have long reaching consequences. People do not understand the implication of caring for other people's children. If this is mentioned at school then SS will be informed and you will be seen to be colluding with the mother.

What would happen if the mother had an accident whilst away and couldn't come home as soon as expected?

SS will place then until she returns and will ensure that this doesn't happen again, they will not be 'heavy handed'.

OP, you or ideally your DDs should Inform the school. they will know what steps to take with SS.

I have been in a similar situation, where an acquaintance left her 2 DC with me, and told me she'd pick them up that afternoon, but never came. I then got a coll from the Detention Centre that both parents were in jail and had asked me to look after them for a few weeks with a friend.

Obviously, we did that day but the next morning after dropping the kids off at school, we told the head Teacher about the situation.

The HT knew exactly what to do, and Ht and SS made a care plan, which in our case, meant a reluctant granny was wheeled out to look after them.

Anyway, I learned from this that SS do not put children into "care" quickly, they always look for a family solution, especially if it is short term.

Involved SS (through the school) does not mean the children will then be taken away from the parents.

If your DDs look after the kids they will be responsible if anything goes wrong. Are they mature enough to accept what that means?

HTH

OP i believe you have had an undeserved kicking - you have plainly taken up the slack when he abandoned you and his first family, you have obviously down a great job in bringing your girls up to be caring people and now he wants to get away with abandoning a second family without any come back on him at all - the mother is as bad - what happens the next time they decide they 'need a holiday' or 'cant cope' etc? yet again the children will not know what is happening to them, who should be taking care of them etc - it is utterly unacceptable to just do you like without putting the care or children first and i think they need a bloody good shock to remind them of this, getting SS involved, in my book, is the only way to go - they are feckless, useless parents and the children deserve better!

It is, of course, possible that the mother went abroad because one of her relatives is dying or something similar, rather than just being a Selfish Bitch going on holiday. Certainly it's the father whose behaviour is the most contemptible (refusing to look after his own DC in order to hurt his wife - there is no justification for his behaviour at all).

Sorry, but even if one of my relatives was dying - I still wouldn't be boarding a plane without PROPER childcare for my DC. The mother KNEW there was no proper care for her dc BEFORE she boarded to plane - at that point, NO MATTER WHY she was going abroad - it did not, and never can, be more important than ensuring your DC are looked after.

In my mind, BOTH parents are as neglectful as each other. And why shouldn't the OP be worried about the impact on HER dc's lives - her DD1 could lose her job, and her DD2 will miss time and lectures at Uni. It is NOT and never will be, the OP'S or the OP's DD's responsibility to care for these dc.

If my DS1's SM fucked off like this, and no-one else stepped up to look after her DC - I would be straight on the phone to SS. Not to be vindictive - but I have NO ROOM for another 2 dc in my house, and I would be unable to afford to feed another 2 dc. Where is the money for these children's food coming from? Did the SM leave food money?

The SM has fucked off, and left her dc with no care (as she had only arranged care for one day - the pick up from school) AND no food - thus meaning that the OP's DD's are having to lose out financially too - and possibly the OP too.

HOW can anyone be making excuses for the SM by saying that she might have been going abroad to look after a dying relative? SO FUCKING WHAT! Her dc either go with her or she doesn't go if she hasn't arranged proper childcare.

And to the poster above who got told by SS that SHE would be done for abandonment if she didn't look after the dc dumped on her without permission - . I would have presented them to the local SS office and said - these are not my dc, they have been abandoned on my doorstep. Goodbye.

It's NOT inhuman - I have enough pressures on me, and I am totally flabbergasted that SS can threaten the person who has HAD the dc dumped on them!!!!If that happened to me, I'd go to the papers to shame SS into stepping up to the mark. No money and no space AND my own disability AND having 2 dc out of 4 with disabilities AND being an LP - no bloody WAY would I be looking after anyone else's dc for more than 3-4 HRS.

Can i just ask is there ANYBODY on this thread who would in a million years board a plane without rock solid care arrangements for their very young children?? Even the worst mother i know wouldn't do that.I think SS must be informed.

There is obviously a lot more to this story.
Miscommunications?
Culture clash?
Abuse?

I wonder if the mother is from another country and that is where the boys are from? Is the OPs DD worried the children will be deported? If the Father is British they have a right to British citizenship (regardless of where they were born). Also we don't deport small children.
But SS need to be informed as both the Mother and Father have been feckless, and who knows what might happen in the future if they carry on this way.

sounds like the father has let the mother down here, and as such if it were me i would be hesitant to report hre. She should not allow this man to be responsible for her dc's at all, ever ever again.

Your dc's sound lovely

I'd never leave my child if there wasn't anything in place for their care. Surely the mum must have known that the father had a beef about her going (hence his refusal to be there for them, which in itself is the pits) I know an awful mum spider My DBs ex dumped my DNs out of her car on the way to the airport at my mums (at 72) as my brother was working away and she knew he couldn't have them. Now she is living in Oz with a new bloke and is on her third child after leaving her other three children here without so much as a bye or leave.

I think everyone is agreed that this is a bad situation. But we don't know the ins and outs of what happened and I think it's unhelpful to keep focusing on the mother.

Yes her behaviour was wrong. Yes I think SS should be involved, but the boys' father is the man 50% responsible for bringing these children into the world and caring for them. And he is in the country yet still refusing to care for his own children*.

Unless he's had a severe accident or amnesia there is no excuse for that. Whereas the mother may have genuinely believed that the father wouldn't behave like this when it really came down to it.

We'll never know and it's irrelevant really as both parents have a duty of care to their DC that has not been met.

Has no one else read OP properly (usually ,my sin [hblush]).
OP says that SS already knows that the parents are absent.
I can't believe SS won't have made a note to chase this up...
The Question is whether the OP's DD's should asap ask SS to take the boys, instead of OP's Dd keeping up their care until their mum returns.

I think the mother spoke to the father after she had left for airport and he said he wouldn't collect the kids from school. I think the mother then rang OP's DD1 who said, reluctantly, that she would take the kids. I think everyone expected the Dad to show up at some point and the mother thought if not DD1 would look after them. If this is the case I think the mother has not abandoned her children as she has left them with another adult (DD1) until their father or she returns. It is not ideal, nor is it what I would have done, but I don't think it's abandonment. It may be that DD1 is not saying to OP that she agreed to take the kids because she knows her mum will be cross because of affect on her new job.

I would be trying to get hold of the father and insist he comes to look after his children rather than calling SS.

At the moment their older sisters seem to want them. If the OP is insisten in phoning the Social Services then yes, they will feel like there is absolutely no one who will want them.

SS should be informed of the situation, for all the reasons listed above.

They (SS) are not the enemy. They will do their best to help DD to care for the boys, not snatch them! With the distance between the DD's work and the boys' school, it could simply helping with transport costs, food, and after school care.

I can't believe some of the comments aimed at the OP here.
She has brought up two fantastic girls despite the useless father, on her own. This guy has a history of walking out on his kids. I really don't think there are any sour grapes here, she has never met the boys and has her own DP and a young DS at home as well as her two DDs.

I wouldn't feel ANY responsibility toward two strange children my knobhead ex had sired then abandoned in the years since we'd been together.

It seems the OP got lucky to rid herself of this disgrace of a father early in her DDs lives.

I'm sure the SM thought (hoped?) her husband was bluffing when he told her he wouldn't collect the boys from school, as they had arranged and asked SDD as a back up plan / til he returned. I'm sure I wouldn't believe that my husband (if I had one) would abandon our DCs knowing I was out of the country. It beggars belief that he has done this. HE didn't know his DD had collected the children, did he? For all he knows they were left at school and could be anywhere now.

Well, it's all just guesswork on our part till the OP returns.
Lots of unanswered questions.