So - boy in dd's class turns up on our doorstep this evening, with his mother

[shagmundfreud]

... to complain that dd was nasty to him in dt today. Both children are in year 8 and have known each other since nursery (went to the same primary).

No suggestion of systematic bullying or physical violence, just a nasty comment about dd not wanting him to sit on their table. In response he cussed dd, and cussed me (apparently). This is no surprise to me - kids at dd's tough inner city comprehensive are mouthy and can be casually very rude to each other. He said that dd was pathetic and had cried a lot at primary school - not very nice as she'd had an episode of being very unhappy and had self-harmed in year 6 which had led to a referral to
CAMHS. Her response was to point out that his mother had said to her that he was lonely at school, and in dd's opinion that was because he's a loser.

Anyway - a typical annoying school spat as far as I can see, and if dd came home and told me this story I would have listened then discouraged dd from talking to him and asked her to consider other people's feelings.

So, was I unreasonable to respond thus: "Sorry you've been upset by all this, but I can't say very much at this point because it's quite hard for me to know what's happened: both of you feel that the other is in part way to blame for this squabble, and I wasn't a witness to it. I'll advise dd to avoid you at school in future, but if she is rude to you can you report it to the teacher immediately, as I'd like the school to address the issue, given that it's happened on their premises."

But actually I'm fuming. I can't believe this mother turned up on my doorstep at 7pm. What happened to letting children sort their social problems out for themselves? There's no suggestion on her part that dd has been systematically bullying or threatening her son, and dd has never, ever been involved in any sort of intimidating or bullying behaviour before in primary or secondary.

DD is steaming and has gone off to tell all her friends about it, despite me telling her to let it go.

Anyway, did I deal with it right?

When I was in a similar situation to the other mother, I raised it with the school. Many of my friends felt a friendlier solution would have been to raise it directly with the mother before involving the school (my friends didn't know the parents concerned).

Facebook is different to MN because it's very much not anonymous.

And they are children.

I feel sorry for the boy.

I stopped telling my mum things because she'd fly off and try to fix the world for me :(

You handled it fine OP.

OP, I think you handled the situation very well. I applaud your calm, you said all that could be said in this situation. But, like a some posters upthread, I'm a little that you seem so dismissive of the fact that your daughter is going to tell her friends. This action will likely escalate the situation and lead to the boy being at the very least mercilessly teased and at worst bullied.

"DD is steaming and has gone off to tell all her friends about it, despite me telling her to let it go."

That in itself needs dealing with. She should have been kept in whilst you spoke to her to try to get to the bottom of it. Come tomorrow it will be ten times worse, stirred up by your DD.

"as I'd like the school to address the issue, given that it's happened on their premises"

You need to be addressing her behaviour, regardless of where it is.

Lol LOVE to see how everyone plans to make their yr 8's remain silent!!!!

Woah, hold on a minute. I can see where you're all coming from, but DD2 has been bullied at school, along with a couple of her friends. We had problems getting the school to deal with it because the girl who was doing the bullying (fairly low level, personal remarks, name calling, attempts at isolating) would immediately start crying and accuse them of bullying her.

She also put their names in the 'bully box' as a pre-emptive measure.

This only came to light when it became such a problem in the class that all the children were informally interviewed and the truth came out. Her parents also accused DD2 and her friends of bullying her, as that is what she had told them.

DD2 has MH problems and has had lots of time off. When they checked, on 3 separate occasions she had put DD's name in the bully box on days she wasn't even there.

Just because his parents have become involved does not automatically make him the victim.

My DS is in year 1 and came home from school last week very upset about a playground incident. I must admit my first reaction was to talk to the other boy's mum and ask her to tell her DS not to be unkind. But after discussing with my DH I decided to mention it to the school instead and ask them to keep an eye on things.

My point is that I understand how the other parent felt, even though it was a silly thing to do. We tend to lose perspective when our DCs are upset.

So I think YABU to be fuming. Although having said that, I do think that what you said was R.

"Running to mummy"
"dragging mummy into it"

What a pile of crap. Who doesnt want their child to tell them when they're upset?

OP, It must have felt like a pretty horrible incident if the boy and/or his mother felt the need to come and talk to you. Shame your reaction was so utterly dismissive and defensive.

Your daughter sounds a pain, and why is she telling her friends when you told her not to? Have you no authority?

Your DD telling her friends about it after you asked her not to sounds like bullying behaviour to me.

She started this by being casually nasty to him. Casual nastiness isn't better or more excusable than any other sort.

She then took offence to him repaying the nastiness and referenced an unlikely sounding conversation with his mother to call him a loser. Why would his mother have that conversation with your DD? And why would your DD decide that loneliness was down to being a loser? That's something a bully would say.

If his mother did say that to your DD, and it sounds unlikely, the only reason I can think of for her to say it to a schoolgirl is because she trusted your DD and hoped she might be kind enough to at least behave in a friendly or decent way towards him. I certainly doubt she would have expected your DD to use it against him and broadcast it to the entire school.

She hasn't gotten into trouble with you or the school. So why does she need to take some petty revenge that will lead to him being bullied at school tomorrow?

Your DD may not say one word to him tomorrow, but she's still the ringleader that has given the other bullies ammunition to use against him.

He either has a pushy mother who shows him up and talks to his classmates about his loneliness who has shown him up once more tonight by making a fuss about this.

Or he has a mother who really cares that he is in a bad situation at school but who has handed the girls who are bullying him some ammunition to use against him on a plate.

No matter what, I hope his mother goes to the school tomorrow because his life is going to be made hell because of your DD's actions tonight. And I hope you have some very strong words with her about that and don't just gloss over it as her "being a cow" at a tough school.

"but if you allow this type of behaviour now on a casual basis"

I don't 'allow it'. Unpleasant behaviour isn't sanctioned and I've encouraged this boy to immediately report dd to the teacher if she says anything nasty to him. I think the fact that he hasn't reported it to the teacher is possibly quite telling, as this family certainly haven't been shy about instantly marching into school on every single other occasion this child has had run-ins with other children, going right back to reception.

BTW - she's not on facebook.

I did say tell her not to go bleating about it to her friends as it'll just stir the whole thing up and end up in more unpleasantness.

Sadly - she's 12, and I can't stop her talking to her friends about this at school. Actually I'd rather she did her bleating about it now on the phone, rather than in a big group tomorrow. They'll be bored of it by then and won't want to talk about it any more.

Can I repeat - this boy has said really disgusting things to my dd and her friends in the past, which I've encouraged her to shrug off and ignore, and she has.

As for those of you who are saying I ought to demand that dd doesn't cuss or be rude to people - sorry, but she has to survive in the social situation she's in, which is WAY beyond anything I had to cope with at her age. I won't stand for bullying or victimisation but I understand why she feels the need to talk and act tough. The school is in a very deprived area with high rates of gun crime and gangs. It's a very dog-eat-dog world, and I'm proud of the fact my dd has managed to keep the same group of (nice) friends since nursery, has kept her head down and stayed out of trouble.

You do need to get your DD off of FB or whatever she is on. And her phone if she has one. No matter what has happened, spreading it round her friends is going to make it worse.

I think you handled it very well indeed. I would suggest, however, that you contact the school in the morning and speak to someone about the incident. If it was bad enough for the boy and his mother to turn up on your doorstep, he obviously reported it to a teacher, right?

YANBU to be surprised that she turned up on your doorstep without any warning. Maybe she wanted to try to sort it out directly without getting the school involved but it doesn't sound like it worked. Children do have to learn to stand up for themselves, but they also have to be told when we think they've done the wrong thing - which is being unkind to another person. No call for that being allowed. It may happen, but it should never be excused as standing up for themselves. Harsh, but I would make sure you are both being honest with each other, and sometime that means hearing things you don't want to.

"You do need to get your DD off of FB or whatever she is on. And her phone if she has one. No matter what has happened, spreading it round her friends is going to make it worse."

She isn't on facebook.

No - I can't stop her talking about it with her friends at school tomorrow. Better she phones them and talks about it tonight, as they'll be bored of it by tomorrow.

And yes - I am going to contact the school tomorrow and discuss it with her tutor.

"but who has handed the girls who are bullying him some ammunition to use against him on a plate"

Sorry - there is no evidence that my dd is 'bullying' this boy, only that she said something nasty to him in a lesson.

I think my problem is that this mother has NEVER, EVER over years of repeated episodes of problems with other children (not my dd), acknowledged that her son is ever more than 'a bit silly', when everyone else who knows this child finds him rude and troublemaking.

I have to say that the mother of the child has done him no favours , we were quite frankly horrible to each other at secondary school ,nice school in a nice area , i would no more of told my mother than thrown my frankie says t shirt or white court shoes in the bin . When i say horrible ,i am not talking about bullying , im talking about the casual random horribleness of youth .

"I hope you sanction her for being nasty to this boy"

No - I won't. Because based on prior knowledge of this child's behaviour, I can't vouch that he didn't provoke her with nasty, personal and hurtful comments about a difficult time in dd's life.

Should add - that at the age of 12 there's often a lot of weirdness and combative behaviour between girls and boys. DD's been bullied herself by boys making horrible comments about her teeth and her skin (she's spotty and has a mouth that's going to make her orthodontist very rich). I've sympathised with her and talked about how she should deal with personal insults - ignore, ignore, ignore, and if she can't ignore and it's upsetting her beyond what she can cope with, then to tell the teacher about it.

OP - "As for those of you who are saying I ought to demand that dd doesn't cuss or be rude to people - sorry, but she has to survive in the social situation she's in, which is WAY beyond anything I had to cope with at her age. I won't stand for bullying or victimisation but I understand why she feels the need to talk and act tough."

But children like her are acting like that because children like her are acting like that.

She's not just trying to cope with it, she's helping to cause it.

And she might not be acting this way if you (and all the other parents) had gone to the school to talk about the incidences in which you feel your child was bullied, rather than telling her to ignore it and condoning her "need" to talk and act tough in return.

The right way to stop the bullies is not to join them.

So you're not going to ask her why she told him he couldn't sit at the table? Why not?

Anyone who thinks that their children in secondary school, don't cuss each other or make snidey comments at some point or another, is deluded.

If you can stop your pre-teens talking or gossiping to their friends about something that happened at school today, then well done. Your children must be perfect.

OP, good on you for being non comittal with your comments and good luck at school tomorrow. If nothing else, I think it's bloody out of order for a parent to come to your front door and discuss something that's happened in school. You wouldn't expect a teacher to knock on your door to complain about your dd's behaviour, so why should you put up with a parent.

I don't know the background fully obviously, and neither does anyone else on this thread, but from the short history you've given us, the whole family sounds like a pain in the arse!

But you've got to be realistic though

Sorry, thread moved on. The girl has to survive at that school. The behaviour expected in some other "nicer" schools is going to get her eaten alive.