To wish there was somewhere that boys could just be boys.

[Teapotqueen]

My DS is just starting Beavers (a younger version of cubs) and it has dawned on me that today there is nowhere where a boy can just be a boy without having girls around to think about. Rainbows, Brownies and Guides are girls only. Everything else is mixed sexes, football, scouts, all school clubs. Why is it wrong in the modern world for boys to be with just boys. Just a thought.

Watfordmummy, of course boys should have the opportunity to sew etc. But girls going to Scouts doesn't stop boys learning to sew.

IME, Cubs etc make absolutely no changes for girls. it's why DD (who otherwise spends far too much doing pink and girly ballet twirling stuff) loves it so much. It's loud, it's messy, the discipline is firm and fair, there's an assumption that every child has a right to take risks, to get horribly dirty, to spend lots of time in the fresh air and to play with dangerous tools well out of sight of any protective parents....

TFM, I think it depends on the local group. Some groups have lots of girls and some have none.

As for the sewing thing, my son did sew in cubs. He also belongs to a knitting club at school. I wasn't aware there was a lack of opportunities for boys to do these things, but perhaps it depends on local area.

I really do think girls alter the dynamic.

I have seen girls try to join in with the boys at the playground. The lads let them and the girls start getting bossy and want things organizing while the boys just play 'Calvin ball' i.e make the rules up as they go along.

Also DS and his mates complain that the girls treat each other different when they fall out - he says for no apparent reason!!

for nearly all the activites DS goes to groups with girls and boys but he enjoys going to Scouts and not having to put up with 'annoying' girls.
Yes I know boys are probably annoying to girls as well. I was just showing his perspective.

ComeIntoTheGardenMaud
Very interesting and yes I didn't realise the significance but 80% of the volunteers for my son's Beaver class are women

No Op said "Why is it wrong in the modern world for boys to be with just boys. Just a thought."

and I for one don't think there is.

I think it's probably largely a historical thing as people have said. I can't see why it really bothers you. Wait until they enter the world of work - as they climb up the career ladder, there will be fewer and fewer women and you can rejoice

I thought this was going to be a "playgroup with padded walls were boys can beat the crap out of each other and the provided toys" I'd go. DS1 is a right royal PITA at times spirited.

Maybe it depends on family situation as well. I have a son and a daughter so they are used to the opposite sex and so don't think of them as being particularly different. I suppose that might change in large group dynamics, but they both have male and female friends and always have done.

Yes but I bet most of the women who voluneteer in the beavers/cubs/scouts are mothers of sons in the organisation

Boys and girls are human beings, they are not separate species.

It really annoys me when these gender assumptions are made that boys can''t function when girls are around and vice versa. If we stopped assigning everything to be either male or female, boy or girl, blue or pink, achieving or nurturing perhaps people could just get on with being people.

ScaredBear Boys are not allowed to join guiding - it is a girls only organisation, and has every intention of remaining that way.

To be honest the whole issue is a bit difficult. Firstly, it is important to remember that despite their similarities, Guides and Scouts are completely separate organisations. They do cooperate on occasion, but in a way saying that "Scouts lets boys in so Guides should let girls in" is like saying "CoE churches now have female vicars, so RC should too". Maybe they should, and maybe they shouldn't, but what one organisation decides to do it not relevant to what the other decides, really.

Secondly, I can completely understand why girls want to join Scouting - it is generally far more adventurous and exciting than Guiding - certainly in the younger years. Guiding has lots of rules and is really H+S mad, whereas Scouting leaves a bit more room for common sense and sensible risk taking. So because Guiding has decided to take a girls only route, does that automatically mean that girls should be denied the great things Scouting has to offer?

Also - in my experience Scouting remains a very male oriented activity, and girls have slotted into that rather than Scouting changing greatly to admit them. I think Guiding would have to change a lot to be appealing to any boys at all.

It is interesting to note that many of the younger scouting units are now being run by women, and would have to close altogether if females were not allowed to participate. And it doesn't make sense to bar female participants if the unit is being organised and run by females - because then it isn't a "male space" anyway.

Just a few of my thoughts - and to be honest I find it hard to justify it completely happily to myself. For the record I am a Rainbow and Brownie Leader, and a regular assistant at Beavers.

If brownies etc don't offer activities that appeal to boys then why should those girls to whom those activities don't appeal either miss out just because they are girls. It's funny, I see lots of little boys at home with their parents cooking etc, are you sure boys don't want to join?

I was a Venture Scout, 15 to 18 year olds mixed back in the eighties, we used to hike, cave, camp and canoe. Great for learning that the opposite sex can be funny, responsible & great company without having to sleep with them at a time when girlfriend/boyfriend issues are so painful.

I can still row and do tricks with canoes thanks to the Scouts and I don't view every man with a shag/marry/die attitude. Ideally I'd like your sons to view my daughters as good companions, colleagues etc without heavy petting being the sole focus.

For me, it's like saying "Why can't blonde people just be with blonde people, and brunettes with brunettes?" Well, they can, but why would they want to?

Oh right. I was reading the thread title!

It bothers me because I think it is unfair.
DS is currently at 6th form doing subjects with an enormous number of female students, doesn't bother him and he sees them as equals.
But he likes to have a space in his week when he's not struggling with all the communication issues and subtleties of female and cross-gender interactions. Where when someone says 'Oh don't bother then' that's actually what they mean with no subtext or flouncing.
Where you can just be with your mates doing something uncomplicated and relatively risky.

Don't you ever enjoy going on nights out with only female friends?

Again not say they can't function when girls are there, it just there seems to be nowhere where boys can go where girls are not allowed to be. But there are places where girls can and do go without boys present.

Dd's Beavers group has a few girls and I can't believe the (6-7 year old) boys behave any differently because there are girls there.
They run round like lunatics, yell and fight, the noise level is incredible.
Seriously if they're reining it in then I'd hate to see what they would get up to in an all-male environment (lapdancing clubs? )

It is a bit off the way it's OK for girls to be little tomboys and want to join the Scouts but no-one is happy for their boys to be girly and want to join the Rainbow/Brownies/Guides.
Apart from the 'it's OK to be a masculine girl but not a feminine boy' aspect, is there an element of wanting to protect the poor little unheard and unseen girls from being overshadowed by the loud, rough boys maybe?

and by the ways males and females, girls and boys, are different!

Riverside, I don't think the Scouts have ever had single sex for 6th form age members. I think all boys activities for teens of that age are probably things they would do either through sport or through single sex friendship groups forming bands etc.

That's what I was trying to say downbytheriverside
My DS picked up on girls communicating in year 2.
He couldn't understand why they would fall out with some one and make a huge deal of it and then there would be tears, then mates would take sides and then a few days later they would all be friends and the cycle would start over again.

He used to just shake his head and say ' I don't get it' Dh used to say 'don't worry son, you never will!!

So have Explorer Scouts always been mixed sex?

Sam I think it more of a case it is more socially acceptable to be a tomboy girl rather than a femine boy.