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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To wish there was somewhere that boys could just be boys.

270 replies

Teapotqueen · 13/10/2011 21:15

My DS is just starting Beavers (a younger version of cubs) and it has dawned on me that today there is nowhere where a boy can just be a boy without having girls around to think about. Rainbows, Brownies and Guides are girls only. Everything else is mixed sexes, football, scouts, all school clubs. Why is it wrong in the modern world for boys to be with just boys. Just a thought.

OP posts:

aldiwhore · 14/10/2011 08:10

I have two boys. There's no real reason to have single sex groups really, a mixed group doesn't stop boys being boys or girls being girls.

My eldest goes to Boxercise (not boxing) and its a mixed group, its never been an issue at all that there are girls present. Its never occured to him that an all boy class would somehow make him a 'real boy', because it wouldn't.

spookshowangellovesit · 14/10/2011 08:13

the guides allowed boys to join but as you can imagine the up take was well zero i was in the intake of first girls to join scouts etc i remember the jokes about it etc. i got a lot from being in the scouts were as my sister learned how to sew in the guides oh and bake and was not able to put up a tent...i may be a tad biased.

cory · 14/10/2011 08:17

joshandjamie, what about the girls who also like those things you list; why should they be excluded just because they were born without a willy?

speaking for myself, I would have hated a place where I was "allowed to be just a girl", i.e. expected to conform to somebody else's preconceived ideas of what little girls are like

instead I had a very happy childhood climbing trees and jumping off the garage roof (don't ask me why) and playing at cudgel fights with my brothers

who are you to say that girls don't need these things?

vixsatis · 14/10/2011 08:20

Some single sex space should be available for both sexes because they tend to play/learn/operate differently. I think single sex schools are a good idea.

The important thing is that no individual should be defined by expectations based on gender. I think that single sex spaces are good for ensuring this- girls in girls' schools don't think physics or woodwork are for boys and boys in boys' schools don't think that poetry or singing are for girls.

aldiwhore · 14/10/2011 08:23

It was our teachers who made gender stereotypes rather than the kids... I had a major battle on my hands to be allowed to do woodwork.

joshandjamie · 14/10/2011 08:24

cory I didn't say girls didn't need those things. I was just like that when I was little (I made 'bombs' out of compost and dog poo and used to attack the boys with it - nice). But not all little girls are like that and while not ALL little boys are like that either, in general, little boys do like that kind of thing more. I'm not saying girls shouldn't be allowed to do it, I'm just saying that sometimes just letting boys be with other boys without them having to follow societies demands about 'being gentle with girls' is good

ArtVandelay · 14/10/2011 08:47

When I was a guide we did very physically taxing things and cooked on fires and had responsibilities. This suited me although I although I remember girls that came but didnt seem to enjoy it.

The Guides my mum has do very soppy things that they really enjoy doing. They are all very nice to each other, very girly and a bit silly. Anytime they have tried to cook on a fire, whittle a stick or even light a candle someone has got hurt and cried for hours :)

Mum says that the Scouts have got all the more tenacious girls so they have to make a space for the soppy ones. No boy has ever asked to join, though boys sometimes come in a gang and throw rocks at the roof of the hut at meetings. I think that allowing girls into scouts has made all the groups actually better at catering for their members.

I think its a big mistake to say that its the gender of the groups that are important, I think its the provision of activities for all kinds of children/personalities that is important. To look at your group and see what they need, rather than assume boys like this, girls like that. Also if male/female end up understanding and respecting each other more through greater familiarity then that can only be a good thing.

cory · 14/10/2011 08:57

ok, I get you josh.

What I think would be ideal would be to have a very clear description of what activities are offered by a particular group and not back down on that, but not describe or limit it in terms of gender.

In other words. "This is X Scout Group. We do adventure play and outdoor survival. If your child would prefer more gentle activities we recommend SoftTeddies Group down the road."

ComeIntoTheGardenMaud · 14/10/2011 13:06

That says (much more succinctly than I managed) what I've been trying to say. I don't think the value of a girls'-only space like Brownies is in enabling them to conform to a stereotype of pink and sparkly girlieness. Quite the opposite. I think girls may feel freer and less inhibited about joining in adventurous activities if there are no boys around. I am constantly looking for activities for our Brownies which aren't tame and sedentary and if we had the kind of facilities which the local Scout group has we would spend even more time lighting fires and swinging on ropes.

Hulababy · 14/10/2011 13:13

Brownies and Rainbow packs are full where we are, with pretty long waiting lists. The cubs are also full and are so far only boys.

But our Brownies are really active. They are always out and about. DD has done lots of activities with them such as swimming, archery, bowling, bouldering, campfire cooking, treaure hunts, orinteering, PGL camp, etc.

Hulababy · 14/10/2011 13:14

One activity she really enjoyed was one some doctors came in with their laparosopy kits too - did some really fun tasks. It was really tricky too. parents were invited to join in.

Fleurdebleurgh · 14/10/2011 13:19

I was the first female Beaver Scout in my whole county in 1989. I am now a Cub Scout leader many years on.

Fwiw according to the scouting POR you CAN have a single sex group under certain circumstances, but generally they must be open to all.

We have just one girl in our pack of 24, another pack in the area has 13 girls and only 3 boys.

I think that in regards to waiting lists, girls having an equal priority as boys is slightly wrong.
We have a waiting list of over 200 children at my group. The local Brownie unit is undersubscribed. Why should we give equal priority to girls when there is an alternative they can attend?

jellybeans · 14/10/2011 13:19

YANBU really to have your own views on that but it doesn't bother me- I have 3 boys (and 2 girls). I get annoyed when people are negative about boys though-usually all girl mums (but I understand as I was a little that way before I had my own wonderfully boistrous brood!!). My boys do cubs and football. No girls in either but there have been some at district camp. I wouldn't mind if there were as they are likely to be girls who like the same kind of things like camping, making dens etc. In fact, my DD2 would have loved it.

PetisaPumpkinHead · 14/10/2011 13:20

But joshandjamie, my little girl loves all of those things too. And she's not particularly "boyish", whatever that means.

MrsHoarder · 14/10/2011 15:11

I actually quit being a Cub Scout leader (as a single childless adult) because of one of the parents having a 10 minute rant at me about how she brought her sons to cubs so they would have a male role model. With that being on offer as the thanks for hours of my own time, effort and use of personal contacts to provide fun, educational, rough and tumble activities for the boys then I decided I'd had enough.

Look at what the groups are doing, not just who the children in them are.

exoticfruits · 14/10/2011 17:08

That is a different tack altogether MrsHoarder but I am not surpised that you quit! Some parents are utterly unbelievable and I bet the woman in question never volunteers for anything.Those who do nothing themselves are always the biggest moaners-about 'they'. Had it not occurred to her that she could try and recruit the male role model?

Peachy · 14/10/2011 17:09

Mrs I used to get rainbow parents ranting at me about why couldn;t I stay behind for half an hour to watch their kids whilst they finsihed work seeing as I was paid for the evening anyway

In fact I was commuting 60 miles with a £5 road toll as we had moved but were waiting for a new Leader to be found, argh.

exoticfruits · 14/10/2011 17:13

You don't need to tell me about it Peachy! I have my own stories-sometimes you wonder why anyone does anything!

exoticfruits · 14/10/2011 17:14

Mind you I can't top 60 miles and a road toll when you give your time for free!

Peachy · 14/10/2011 17:19

was only temporarily.

pointydog · 14/10/2011 17:27

Some guiding groups appear to offer a more sedate and restricted range of activities and that must be because the adults running the groups and/or the individuals making up that group prefer these sort of activities.

Some guide groups offer a more daring range of activities and that must be because the adults and/or young people prefer that.

I am saying, teacher, that the indivuduals involved will dictate the activities far more than the sex of the participants.

pointydog · 14/10/2011 17:28

Since when is football a contact sport?!

pointydog · 14/10/2011 17:30

I'm rambling. Someone said that at some point.

attheendoftheday · 14/10/2011 18:23

Fleur, the boys could also join the Brownies group, they are mixed gender too, just with a poor uptake from boys. Presumably the boys don't feel the Brownies would replace what they want from Scouts, exactly the same as the girls. IMO you should treat them the same.

seeker · 14/10/2011 18:50

Brownies and Guides are girls only.

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