To wish there was somewhere that boys could just be boys.

[Teapotqueen]

My DS is just starting Beavers (a younger version of cubs) and it has dawned on me that today there is nowhere where a boy can just be a boy without having girls around to think about. Rainbows, Brownies and Guides are girls only. Everything else is mixed sexes, football, scouts, all school clubs. Why is it wrong in the modern world for boys to be with just boys. Just a thought.

I have a dd who is a scout and was the first girl cub in our pack. She was also in the guides all the way through from rainbows to guides. It was quite a boring guides who seemed more worried about how they packed their sleeping bag than having fun on camp. She was both for quite a while, the guideleaders wearn't happy about it

However I do agree with the OP. When DS was a scout his Friday night was a really good way of running off some testosterone. He is not a football playing type of boy, but really loved beeing able to run around playing run outs on scout night.
I was only happy for DD to go into cubs/scouts as long as the girls didn't spoil the ethos for the boys and take over.

pointydog football is very much a contact sport. You use your arms to make space around you, you tackle , corners involve alot of josling around in front of goal, headers involve leaping into the air against others who are also leaping. the idea is to reach the ball first and not worry to much who gets knocked out the way or you land on.

i cant see how ypu can play football without contact between players. This is mainly older players as in most under 10's 7 a side teams it is mainly kids just chasing after a ball but when they go up to under 11's and play 11 aside then things change.

Sorry, my mistake. I'm amazed that they are still single sex, I thought that went out years ago. Seems wrong to me.

I dont think boys need a special space so they can be 'boys'.

However, I do get the strong sense that some mothers who only have DDs send their girls to single sex school, brownies, guides, dance and push them to pursue generally girly activities because they think girls need a 'boy free' space so they can be girls without horrid smelly boys interfering.

I have two boys.

Just wanted to make one point. Those who are saying that Boys' Brigade is not a good alternative because it is a Christian organisation - its worth pointing out that Cubs/Scouts/Brownies/Guides are also Christian and if your dcs sign up they're quite likely to be expected to go to church parades and the like. The Woodcraft Folk are non-religious - but have always been mixed.

As it happens, I think it is a shame that Brownies & Guides can't accept boys in some circumstances. I'm sure there are boys who would enjoy and benefit from the activities, and certainly where we live in a very rural area it would make a pack more viable.

Personally, I think it would make most sense if individual packs of brownies and cubs were able to decide based on their catchment area whether they wanted to be mixed or single sex.

The activities that groups do (Scouts or Guides) depends totally on the Leaders running the Group and the individuals (boy or girl in that group).
I have two boys who are Cubs (and a Daughter who is too young for either yet) and have been running a Guide Unit (girls aged 10 - 14) since before my children arrived.

Our activities at Guides are very much based on what the Girls want to do, a good leader will balance the program to give a range. Not long ago we were potholing but in a few weeks are going to see Swan Lake! We camp a couple of times a year. The Guides themselves have said that they enjoy being together and are more likely to do activities without feeling self consious as there are no boys around. I do think that this is more important at Guide age.

GirlguidingUk has stayed girls only as this is what the majority of its Members (of all ages) prefer.

Unfortunately the stereotype that Scouts is more exciting/outdoor still remains, and in some Units this may be so, but please don't judge on one example!!!! They are both organisations that give youngsters fantastic opportunities.

"Personally, I think it would make most sense if individual packs of brownies and cubs were able to decide based on their catchment area whether they wanted to be mixed or single sex."

The indivual scout packs were allowed to make their own decision.

However I think it would have been nice for the scout/guide packs to get together every so often. Our pack were always inviting the guides to family events but they didn't want to know

Sorry - also wanted to point out that Girlguiding UK IS NOT a Christian organisation. This is a common misconception as many Units meet in church halls (local and reasonable rents)! We are actually multi-faith.

JandJ, I have a boy and I don't recognise your description. My son and his friends go out on bikes, climb on rocks, swim in rivers, ride bikes for miles etc. That doesn't mean they wouldn't 'give someone else a chance' - whatever their gender because they don't see things as a competition.

Neither do they feel a need to be more 'gentle' with girls because they wouldn't go around endangering or potentially injuring other boys or themselves. It is because they don't go around doing dangerous things (which is obviously stupid) that they have so much freedom from late primary age onwards to climb rocks, swim in rivers, camp etc all without an adult.

DD also does similar things with her friends.

I don't think you are getting an insight into what men are like from your boys at all. I think you are turning your boys into a certain sort of man. And that is perhaps what we all do. We have an idea of what males and females are like, and we create that in our own children.

Sorry Gcat - but it is true I think that an awful lot of Guides/Brownies do church parades, join in harvest festivals, advent services etc and expect attendance? Certainly that was the case when I was a Brownie and is also so at the pack that dd attended until recently.

I agree completely Milly.

What I have found really horrid and shocking about this thread tbh is the slagging off of girls. It's vile and I find it appalling that women are writing this kind of stuff about other female children. And then I remember why the patriarchy is so pervasive and it all makes sense.

And many of the posters who have made unpleasant remarks about females have made it clear that they themselves are not at all like that. They claim to have some kind of characteristic that makes them 'one of the boys' so they believe (quite falsely of course) they are exempt from their negative portrayals of females.

But it is odd that people mention allowing boys to do dangerous things. The Scouts doesn't allow boys to dangerous things. It allows boys and girls to do active things in a responsible manner, like any sensible parent would.

"Sorry - also wanted to point out that Girlguiding UK IS NOT a Christian organisation. This is a common misconception as many Units meet in church halls (local and reasonable rents)! We are actually multi-faith."

Some packs are sponsored by the church. We had two groups in dds pack and one was church sponsored and the other wasn't.

Takver - yes many Units do join church parades etc but no one should expect attendance, unfortunately some leaders still give this impression and this goes against GirlguidingUK's guidelines.

Our Unit are leading a Christingle service in December to raise money for the Children's society but the Guides don't HAVE to attend, it is offered as an activity in the same way as anything not on a normal meeting night. In the past we have also celebrated Diwali and looked round a Synagogue - all part of exploring faith/spirituality, taking part in the Christingle is also part of this.

Ah, thanks for explaining gcat. Its helpful to know that - its not a problem for me (we are atheists as a family, but since DH likes to sing medieval religious music we do a fair bit of 'cultural' church attending ) but I know it has been an issue for people on other threads on MN.

(I should point out in fairness to DH that he sings in a choir, he doesn't just randomly go to churches and sing medieval music!)

i agree that whilst they are young there is no reason why clubs shouldn't be mixed but as they get older boys (and girls) do need their own places where they can just hang with other boys (or other girls).
It is not just girls who discuss body changes, emotions ect with their peers. Boys alos discuss these things with other boys in a space which hasn't been invaded by girls.

Maybe I have the wrong definition in my head of a contact sport then. I would say any sport which does not actually require any contact and where a lot of contact is penalised, is not a contact sport.

www.serioussoccer.net/CoachesCorner/Default.aspx?CoachID=793ad876-7f1b-4642-a3f2-ce17199a5ef9&ArticleID=17

will give you a clearer idea of contact in football than my rather clumsy postings. cotact is very much part of football and you tread a very fine line between aceptable contact and a foul.

I have posted on another thread about this.

I seem to be having countless discussions on this subject lately, partly because it is becoming the norm when parenting on the mothers part breaks down, that the father wants to go for residency, rather than what used to happen, adoption out of the family.

This doesn't usually happen because the 'skills and knowledge' needed to care for a child and run a home hasn't been taught to the males only the females, segregation doesn't benefit either gender, children can learn alot from each other and the older mixed peers around them, if they are lucky enough to have them around.