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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that it's not racist to describe someone who is black as being black.

179 replies

lovingthecoast · 05/10/2011 12:50

Sorry, probably haven't worded that very well but I'm feeling a bit upset and shaky after virtually being accused of racism.

Just took DS2 (3wks) to clinic. It's a large clinic with a few HVs and nursery nurses helping. I had had a conversation with one of the ladies last week and brought up said conversation today. HV asked who I'd spoken to and I said 'sorry I can't remember her name but the tall, black lady.' HV practically gasped, looked at her helper then said to me, 'We'd rather not describe people in terms of their ethnicity as it's considered rather offensive.' She was then frosty with me for the rest of the time.

I'm quite gobsmacked for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I was giving a physical description of the woman so to me, saying she was black was just like saying she had blonde curly hair or something. Secondly, is it really considered racist to make mention of someone's skin colour? I wasn't implying she was somehow inferior (in fact she was very helpful, more so that this HV) I was merely describing her so they'd know who I was talking about. If 3 of the 4 HVs were black and I wanted to point out the white one, I'd say the white one. Confused

I know I'm hormonal but it's shaken me and since Ive come home I'm starting to feel angry about it and a bit teary. Oh I don't know, it's made me doubt my use of language even though I didn't think I was attaching anything to the colour of her skin if that makes sense.
Talk to me please and tell me straight whether she was being UR or whether I need to look at my language a bit more. Thanks

OP posts:
ArthurPewty · 05/10/2011 18:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kblu · 05/10/2011 18:49

YANBU, i'd have said the same and probably have given her a gobful if she'd started the racist card as well.

wahwahwah · 05/10/2011 18:52

This happened to me in the bank once. I had paid in a cheque and they managed to lose it. The manager asked which teller I had seen that day and I used the 'b' word (she was the only 'b' teller there but I dodn't know her name). I got told off. Funnily enough I had just had a rep in to see me that day for a magazine called 'black hair and beauty' or soemething like that, so I thought it was ok...

OurPlanetNeptune · 05/10/2011 19:14

lovingthecoast - just read the first couple pages of this and as a black woman I can tell YANBU. The HV is stupid and ignorant. I do not know a SINGLE black person who would object to being described as being black, particularly in the context you describe. I am utterly confused, when did describing someone's physical attributes become offensive? Seriously.

OP, had I been present I would have told the HV to stop being such a condescending fool. I am glad you are feeling better about it.

nailak · 05/10/2011 19:19

i dont think it is racist,

but i sort of understand where she is coming from, i was asked a similar question and i replied, i was a small skinny woman, and the dr i was descrbin was chinese or something, but it wouldnt have really crossed my mind to describe her in terms of ethnicity, as her ethnicity didnt register as much on my memory as the fact she was petite and skinny!!!

but i suppose i could be accused of being sizeist...

Misspixietrix · 05/10/2011 21:13

Hmm at the HV, No YABU, it appears to me that said HV had probably been on some PC course and if I was you I'd make an issue of this as she was unreasonable to make you feel crap about something that was taken in completely the wrong context by her (HV). Unfortunately it's a trait that hasn't yet been surgically removed from some HV's that they have to make at least 1 person feel shitty, I bear many scars! :o x

Misspixietrix · 05/10/2011 21:15

OOOOPS OP, ever so sorry that's not meant to say YABU It's meant to say YANBU!! sorry again! Thanks x

PicaK · 05/10/2011 21:43

I think your HV was being unreasonable to attack you about it - cos like you say, you don't need any aggression in your life right now.

But I'm afraid I'm going to say that I don't think it's a good idea to describe someone in terms of their ethnicity other than to answer a question about ethnicity.

There's so much subtle racism out there, I've always thought it important not to go down that route. I know that I would never describe a white friend as being white eg i'd always say "julia? She's the tall, blonde one" never "Julia? She's the white, tall, blonde one".

It's the fact that I don't do this that makes me feel uncomfortable to say the black, Asian, Chinese one. It's almost as though i would be signifying that they are 'other'.

I dare say people will laugh at me - but I genuinely believe that until I use ethnicity in every case I shouldn't use it for people who are of different ethnicities to me.

Ariana86 · 05/10/2011 21:52

YANBU - the HV has obviously no idea what 'being racist' actually means.

I've heard & dealt with racial abuse being directed at friends, colleagues & my own sister in the past.

Trust me, you were most definitely not racist, identifying the other HV as being 'black' in the polite descriptive context that you used is fine.

Original poster
lovingthecoast · 05/10/2011 21:57

Just came back to thank everyone for their support today. It really helped as I was getting myself in a state about it. Smile

PicaK, Ive just noticed you disagree with is fine but I just wanted to say that when I was describing her as black I wasn't even thinking 'oh that's her ethnicity'. I was just using a physical description of her. I wouldn't have said the 'tall white one' because the others are all white so that would be as good as saying 'the female one', if that makes sense. Certainly if she'd been the only white one and the others had been black I would most definitely have said the white one as that would have identified the woman quickly and easily.

I'm sorry to the small minority of posters who have said they do find it offensive but now that I have 4 children asleep and my rational head on again I can categorically say that I don't think I was being racist, merely descriptive simply because I attributed no characteristic to her skin colour, other than, well, that she had black skin.

Thanks again for helping me see it straight in my head. Even though this is fourth time for me, I'm still shocked at how altered your emotions are shortly after birth.

OP posts:
Vallhala · 05/10/2011 21:58

How the feck should you describe the lady then?

I bet if she was a stranger and had arranged to meet you at a busy train station she'd have said, "I'll be outside gate 2. Look out for a short Black woman in a green coat".

Ridiculous, daft HV!

TheFarSide · 05/10/2011 22:01

PicaK - would you describe someone as "the French one" if there were no other obvious distinguishing features?

kerala · 05/10/2011 22:01

I was mortified to be picked up for using the term mixed race I genuinely didn't know it would cause offence.

Laquitar · 05/10/2011 22:10

OP you could reply to her in mn style:

i.e. 'Massive over-thinking lady. Get a grip'.

TheFarSide · 05/10/2011 22:10

Kerala - what is the new PC term for "mixed race"? I remember when "mixed race" replaced "half caste".

I was in a job interview last week for the NHS and the word "patient" slipped out of my mouth. I then started rambling about "I know you don't call them patients any more but I can't remember what the term is, in my last job we used to call them clients" and on and on I went until I suddenly remembered the correct term: "service users" - and laughed at myself while the interviewers sat there po-faced. I got the job.

MamaMaiasaura · 05/10/2011 22:10

HV an idiot. Yanbu. Re the whole descriptive thing I had a conversation with one of the nurses I worked with re whole pc stuff. He was black and said it's actually offensive when someone describes him a 'coloured' as we are all coloured, he said he is black. My mum (who reminds me at times of hyacinth bucket) will say the coloured chap for example. It really pisses me off as I know that is offensive and I correct her everytime

undercoverwizard · 05/10/2011 22:12

So we are allowed to describe ourselves as white but we can't describe black people as black?? Crazy, political correctness gone mad and you are definitely not being unreasonable.

However, this is the sort of conversation that I dread having at to the place that I work as I work with a lot of people from "ethnic minorities" to use the politically correct term. In order to avoid such situations I always make sure to avoid using their skin colour if I have to describe them to someone even though it may make the description clearer. It's just that I never know who I might offend. Totally ridiculous but true.

TheFarSide · 05/10/2011 22:15

"Coloured" is the term used by the older generation and I would have thought any sensible black person would recognise this and wouldn't be unduly offended by this term.

This has just reminded me of the time I (a white person) found out that some black people call white people "greys".

TheFarSide · 05/10/2011 22:15

I'm a grey, by the way.

diggingintheribs · 05/10/2011 22:20

we had this at work

my colleague had a lottery syndicate and a young black chap came down to leave his £1 (colleague wasn't there) - we didn't know his name so when our colleague asked who left the money my friend was all flustered and said 'the tall man'. colleague didn't know. she went through varius other vague descriptions. Colleague ended up going through the phone directory (with pictures) of all the tall men in the syndicate. Came to the correct one and he said "well why didn't you say he was black!"

I personally think it's ok as a descriptor but there are grey areas eg if someone who is english but of Indian heritage (but how can you be sure?) were to be described what would you say? Not every race has a designated 'colour'?

Anyway, YANBU - if her distinguishing feature is her colour and height then that is the best descriptor. When I had DS all the midwives were black and one was white. I referred to her as the white midwife when asked who had checked my waters. No one seemed to think that was offensive and they all knew who I meant!

Faffalina · 05/10/2011 22:22

Why on Earth would that be racist?? I'm sure the lady in question is happy to describe her skin as black.

TheFarSide · 05/10/2011 22:24

I have worked with white and black people for a number of years now and we are a fairly close-knit group. We have reached the point where we can discuss and make fun of stereotypes without anyone getting offended, but when we first met there was some wariness about what is and isn't acceptable. None of us gets offended now because we KNOW we are generally decent people. It's such a RELIEF to be able to relax like this, and a major shame that so many people feel so awkward about mentioning race issues.

lifechanger · 05/10/2011 22:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Meteorite · 05/10/2011 22:28

YANBU, it's not racist at all. Skin colour is just a descriptive fact like hair colour, eye colour, height etc.

If you were pointing out negative characteristics to describe someone's appearance that would be different.

Faffalina · 05/10/2011 22:39

Oh boffinmum at least they are large. I'd hate to be described as, you know, the one with the really small norks...

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