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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think that it's not racist to describe someone who is black as being black.

179 replies

lovingthecoast · 05/10/2011 12:50

Sorry, probably haven't worded that very well but I'm feeling a bit upset and shaky after virtually being accused of racism.

Just took DS2 (3wks) to clinic. It's a large clinic with a few HVs and nursery nurses helping. I had had a conversation with one of the ladies last week and brought up said conversation today. HV asked who I'd spoken to and I said 'sorry I can't remember her name but the tall, black lady.' HV practically gasped, looked at her helper then said to me, 'We'd rather not describe people in terms of their ethnicity as it's considered rather offensive.' She was then frosty with me for the rest of the time.

I'm quite gobsmacked for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I was giving a physical description of the woman so to me, saying she was black was just like saying she had blonde curly hair or something. Secondly, is it really considered racist to make mention of someone's skin colour? I wasn't implying she was somehow inferior (in fact she was very helpful, more so that this HV) I was merely describing her so they'd know who I was talking about. If 3 of the 4 HVs were black and I wanted to point out the white one, I'd say the white one.

I know I'm hormonal but it's shaken me and since Ive come home I'm starting to feel angry about it and a bit teary. Oh I don't know, it's made me doubt my use of language even though I didn't think I was attaching anything to the colour of her skin if that makes sense.
Talk to me please and tell me straight whether she was being UR or whether I need to look at my language a bit more. Thanks

OP posts:

Original poster

lovingthecoast · 05/10/2011 13:05

I said she was tall because she was about 5'11 which is tall to me. I just remebered that she was black and she was tall so used those words to describe her. Really glad to hear this is ok. I always consider racism to be assuming superiority based on skin colour or basing judgments on it. not just using it in the way id use hair colour or use of glasses.

Youve all made me feel so much better.

OP posts:

CelticStarlight · 05/10/2011 13:06

What a ridiculous woman the HV is - how on earth can that be racist seeing as it isn't pejorative at all, simply descriptive? It is silly things like this that cause damage to the equality and toleration cause!

HecateGoddessOfTheNight · 05/10/2011 13:08

Theala Wed 05-Oct-11 13:01:30
"Not alone are you racist, OP, you are also extremely sizist for describing her as "tall". We tall people are very offended by comments like that."

and sexist, for mentioning gender.

Don't worry about it, OP. HV was being stupid.

grovel · 05/10/2011 13:09

HV is an idiot.

CointreauVersial · 05/10/2011 13:09

Glad you are feeling reassured, OP.

Go and make yourself a cuppa, give your babe a cuddle and forget all about the stupid woman.

LeBOF · 05/10/2011 13:10

I think it needs a short letter to the practice, actually. Their diversity training is clearly a bit shit, and it's unacceptable to continue the session while speaking to you as though you were something she had trod in- you are there to get help, fgs.

People here are good at composing stuff- it doesn't gave to be a rant, or even a complaint, but somebody needs to put her right about getting on her high horse.

Snowboarder · 05/10/2011 13:11

Goodness me, what idiots people can be. YADNBU. The lady was black, and you used that as a descriptor. If she'd had long red hair, or bright green glasses or some such, no doubt you would have used those descriptors.

Don't feel bad about it. The woman is at best a tad misguided, at worst a complete idiot.

AMumInScotland · 05/10/2011 13:15

YANBU. If anyone was being racist it was the HV you were talking to, who seems to be assuming that "black" is an insult. There's nothing remotely offensive about describing what someone looks like when you are trying to describe someone who you can't name. It would only be offensive if you mentioned it in a negative way, and is best avoided when its totally irrelevant to the conversation.

But the person is black. And tall. And female.

I don't avoid calling people blonde, even though people make "blonde jokes" - its only insulting if you use it in that way.

JodieHarsh · 05/10/2011 13:16

When I was a churchy sort some of the kids there would say "I go to white church this morning and black church tonight."

'Cos the former had lots of white people and a white pastor, and the latter had a black pastor and more black people in the congregation.

Seemed reasonable to me. The kids were both white and black.

I find (I live in E London) that kids are waaaaaaaay easier on all this stuff than adults. Before they've learned to be either a) racist or b) terrified of failing an equality and diversity certificate at work.

Ah, there is hope in youth...

YAVDNBU and I feel bloody sorry for you. Being put down by an ignorant tit is very depressing.

Original poster

lovingthecoast · 05/10/2011 13:17

Thanks everyone. Ive just made a cup of tea and Im feeling much better about it all. Probably less upset and more cross though. I just wish I hadnt been a woosy mother of newborn and had said something to her at the time. But then I wanted to check in case I was BU. MN is at its best for instant reassurance on stuff.

OP posts:

ShoutyHamster · 05/10/2011 13:18

Agree with LeBOF. Short letter, pointing out that

a. Using someone's colour to simply DESCRIBE them is not racist. The HV needs her diversity training explained to her more clearly!

b. The way the HV reacted to you was not only factually wrong, it was inappropriate and very upsetting for you - she basically accused you of racism. Not on. She not only needs a bit more diversity training, but also a wee bit of advice on how to communicate better with her clients!

Totally stupid woman.

youarekidding · 05/10/2011 13:18

YANBU. In fact the HV mentioned ethnicity not you. You were just giving physical information for identification.

DS was born abroad, pale, long thin baby with strawberry blonde hair - and nothing like the babies born who were from this country!
We were often idebtified as the 'English mum with the baby who has slightly red hair'

People knew who we were straightaway.

PeggyNight · 05/10/2011 13:20

I always find it difficult and find myself searching for a different feature to distinguish the person by, which can just end up sounding silly and contrived. I always stumble over describing someone as 'black'.
I would genuinely love to know what is acceptable in the situation you were in (and totally agree with the incidental mention being unnecessary) with any skin colour.

fedupofnamechanging · 05/10/2011 13:21

What Shouty said.

HV is unhinged and needs reeling back in, before she upsets even more people that she is supposed to be supporting.

Mandy2003 · 05/10/2011 13:22

I've no idea where he got the idea from, but my DS said it was racist to describe a black person as black. He thought it was more polite to say "coloured"!!! I had to put him right on that one very rapidly

Glad you're feeling better OP!

DeepPurple · 05/10/2011 13:23

YANBU she is stupid

JustinBoobie · 05/10/2011 13:28

YANBU, she is.

If I was you, next time I saw her I would pull her up on it!

luvviemum · 05/10/2011 13:29

HV sounds an utter moron. imo she is the one who is potentially racist by indicating that there is something wrong with describing someone as black. You would have been well within your rights to reprimand her for being so ignorant.

forehead · 05/10/2011 13:29

YADNBU. I have just asked my black co worker if she would be offended by this. Her reply was 'absolutely not'.
In fact, she said that she finds that people who try so hard to avoid mentioning colour are the people xhe tends to have more of a problem with as they are more likely to be racist. She often decribes people in terms of their colour if it facilitates identification.

thefirstMrsDeVere · 05/10/2011 13:29

Complain. She has got it wrong. She is in a position to spread this crap about and it just leads to more crap.

I would have (I would - I have done it before) have challenged her and asked her why she thought describing someone as black was negative. Does she see being black as negative? That usually shuts people like her up.

Nothing wrong with being called black - why should there be in this context?

SHE makes it sound as if there is something shameful about being black.

Or like one of those numpties who think it is a compliment to say 'we dont think of your OH as being black' and then expect some sort of prize for being so tolerant

eurochick · 05/10/2011 13:31

HV is an ill-informed idiot. I bet the practice hands out those ethnicity forms asking you if you are black, white, asian, etc. Does she tippex the black out as it shouldn't be used to describe people? (No doubt putting white tippex over the black would represent oppression so she must get herself in a right pickle.)

BTW, you do realise that you inadvertantly stepping into the Little Britain "college" sketch, don't you? (Where someone goes in to discuss another student and spends ages doing the kind of description this HV would seem to prefer: "you know, the one with the glass, always wear a green jacket, etc, etc", avoiding describing skin colour, before the receptionist comes back with something like "oh you mean the ching chong chinaman".....)

Original poster

lovingthecoast · 05/10/2011 13:31

Peggy, the thing is I think stopping and considering how I could have better described her would have made me consider her skin colour unnecessarily, if that makes sense.

To me, her skin colour is a physical attribute. That's also what I teach my kids. Its not something to hide from or pretend doesn't exist but it doesn't define a person.

Gosh, I sound so much calmer and more rational just 10mins in to this thread. It's amzing what a cup of tea and a few reassuring words can do.

OP posts:

GilbonzoTheSecretPsychoDuck · 05/10/2011 13:32

I think it would be worse to try and describe someone who is black without mentioning it as, to me, you would come across as having an issue with it - like the old big blue elephant in the room.

ThePathanKhansWoman · 05/10/2011 13:32

YANBU how ridiculous of the HV. Womans an arse.

verytellytubby · 05/10/2011 13:32

She's stupid.

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