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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that it's not racist to describe someone who is black as being black.

179 replies

lovingthecoast · 05/10/2011 12:50

Sorry, probably haven't worded that very well but I'm feeling a bit upset and shaky after virtually being accused of racism.

Just took DS2 (3wks) to clinic. It's a large clinic with a few HVs and nursery nurses helping. I had had a conversation with one of the ladies last week and brought up said conversation today. HV asked who I'd spoken to and I said 'sorry I can't remember her name but the tall, black lady.' HV practically gasped, looked at her helper then said to me, 'We'd rather not describe people in terms of their ethnicity as it's considered rather offensive.' She was then frosty with me for the rest of the time.

I'm quite gobsmacked for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I was giving a physical description of the woman so to me, saying she was black was just like saying she had blonde curly hair or something. Secondly, is it really considered racist to make mention of someone's skin colour? I wasn't implying she was somehow inferior (in fact she was very helpful, more so that this HV) I was merely describing her so they'd know who I was talking about. If 3 of the 4 HVs were black and I wanted to point out the white one, I'd say the white one. Confused

I know I'm hormonal but it's shaken me and since Ive come home I'm starting to feel angry about it and a bit teary. Oh I don't know, it's made me doubt my use of language even though I didn't think I was attaching anything to the colour of her skin if that makes sense.
Talk to me please and tell me straight whether she was being UR or whether I need to look at my language a bit more. Thanks

OP posts:
Pendeen · 05/10/2011 15:28

Another YANBU here - most contributors have got it right.

One point may have not been made (sorry haven't read every post) but please don't worry if someone calls you racist - especially on such flimsy made up faux outrage evidence.

I do sympathise with the hormonals (last week was bad for me :( ) but it's not like someone has accused you of theft or child abuse or murder.

Accusation of 'racism' or 'ageism' or (I'm not sure this a real word ) 'disablism' are estremely easy to throw aroun yet but also very likely to upset the recipient so - as many on here have said - please treat this slur with the contempt it deserves.

:)

chandellina · 05/10/2011 15:32

YANBU. i've hesitated at times to make a similar sort of description when asked but it's ridiculous not to just describe someone. Even if that means - the sort of heavy woman, or the short white man, or whatever.

BoffinMum · 05/10/2011 16:45

I rather like the term 'traditionally built' as in MMa Ramotswe's use of the term, for the larger lady. Grin

gethelp · 05/10/2011 16:51

The trouble is someone who you are depending on for help and guidance has effectively told you off, at a point when you are emotionally vulnerable . I sincerely hope you will take on board what everyone here is saying, YANBU! The HV has picked a word out of a sentence and found meaning where there is none. If you're still worried go and see another HV next time, maybe the helpful one who is tall and black.

KeepInMind · 05/10/2011 16:52

YANBU and you were in no way racist, sadly everyone is a PC idiot these days

LeQueen · 05/10/2011 16:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NorfolkBroad · 05/10/2011 16:59

I really feel for you. That is a horrible thing to have happened. Can i reassure you that my partner is black and she would not be in the slightest offended to be called "black" in that context. She finds it really upsetting when people get so silly about stuff like that. You KNOW racism when you hear it and this is not it! Hope you feel better now.

Bugsy2 · 05/10/2011 17:01

lovingthecoast, I ended up having a huge row at DS's school about this. One of DS's classmates was boasting about the tan that she had & DS said to her, well you would have a great tan, you are half black. Well, it all kicked off & the girl & then her parents accused DS of racism. So I went in and really argued my corner (having checked with all my black friends first) that referring to someone as black is not in itself racist - just as referring to someone as white is not racist. If the you throw an insult in with black or white, along the lines of all white people are stupid, then of course it is racist.
After, quite a stand off, got an apology from the Headteacher, the girl & her parents for call my DS racist!!!
So huge sympathy to you. The HV is wrong & she shouldn't have reprimanded you like that.

VivaLeBeaver · 05/10/2011 17:06

YANBU

We have a black Dr at work and if I ask a patient which Dr they saw and they then hesitate/look uncomfortable I always say "was it the black one". I'm nearly always right and the amount of people who have been grateful that I said it and say something along the lines of that they weren't sure if they were allowed to say his colour astounds me. He wouldn't mind and like you say its purely descriptive.

Whatmeworry · 05/10/2011 17:18

Welcome to the wonderful world of the Politically Correct Semantic Catsbumface Tripwire Game :)

My acid test is always "does 90% of the population use the definition I have just used - if yes, ignore as person is Professionally Offended sort"

Tianc · 05/10/2011 17:25

Mind you, it's easy to get bit sensitive about ethnicity or the like being used as a descriptive identifier, if you've previously been on the receiving end of a lot of irrelevant mentioning.

Sometimes you just get fed up of people hammering on about "differences" even if the context is potentially innocent.

thefirstMrsDeVere · 05/10/2011 17:47

I am the dreaded 'politically correct' although I prefer to call it 'polite'

I use 'black' if it is relevant.

I hope the thread doesnt descend into a big ol' dismissal of offensive language.

Real idiots love it when other real idiots say stuff described in the OP. It gives them free rein to bang on about when 'gay' was a lovely word and how their mate Chalky used to love being called Golly cos it were a larf.

Original poster
lovingthecoast · 05/10/2011 17:55

Thanks again everyone! I'm feeling ok about it now in the sense that I'm no longer upset. I'm still a bit cross, though that's mainly with myself for feeling too 'new-mumsy' to say anything. Also, I'm a bit annoyed that a health professional whose views could carry weight under different circumstances could make such a snap judgement about me and possible share that judgement with others. But I'm just going to have to not think about that one.

Insomnia, I would indeed have said 'the tall white lady' if the other HVs were black. Simply for the same reason which was to quickly identify her.

OP posts:
Original poster
lovingthecoast · 05/10/2011 18:00

Tianc, I completely get it about the irrelevant mentioning. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, DH pointed out to me when I phoned him in tears that I'd talked at length about the really helpful HV last week and how useful her advice was without ever mentioning she was black. But then why would I? It didn't add to or detract from her professional skills. I'm quite sure there are plenty of crap HVs who happen to be black too! Grin

I mentioned it today because I was trying to describe what she physically looked like as, despite her being so good, I hadn't made a note of her name.

OP posts:
DaphneDoomWarrior · 05/10/2011 18:02

Of course you are not being unreasonable. If I were black I would be quite happy to be described thus. The trouble in these situations is that it is usually some other self-righteous moronic do-gooder complaining on the part of the ethnic minority rather than the minority themselves.
Ignore her and move on, you have nothing to be ashamed of.

pigletmania · 05/10/2011 18:04

YANBU at all silly woman that HV is. I have a few African friends and they describe themselves as black, when talking about other African people theIy use the term black. It just got out of hand really. Would there be any forore if you used the term white!

GossipWitch · 05/10/2011 18:06

do you think she'd have known who you were talking about if you'd have said erm she was tall, had black curly hair, and brown eyes?

TakeThisOneHereForAStart · 05/10/2011 18:08

I once spent a happy five minutes on the bus listening to two women talking about a receptionist they didn't like at the doctors.

Woman 1: Which one was it?
Woman 2: The orange one.
Woman 1: Oh her, I can't stand her. How does she get that colour? Still, she's better than the one with the fingernails.

I think YWNBU to describe this lady the way you did. It could have been much funnier worse. I don't think it's any worse than using hair colour or features like glasses (which I wear) or age etc.

dawntigga · 05/10/2011 18:11

I think I'd have said person of colour as I have a friend who HATES the term black as she doesn't see herself as defined by that colour. However, for the vast majority of people of colour I know black is not offensive.

TookAWhileToTakeDidPersonOfColourTiggaxx

LeQueen · 05/10/2011 18:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

InsomniaQueen · 05/10/2011 18:19

As a black woman OP I will tell you that those HV's were being ridiculous - as you said you were describing her. I hate when people do this, just make a problem out of nothing. I lump it in with stupid things like not saying "can I have a black coffee" ect - really when did a black coffee become such a slur!!!

My husband is white and we say all manner of things to each other that many people would be Shock at. Alot of the time people do actually gasp at the things we say to each other - for example on holiday we found salt and pepper shakers which come as a pair of figures which hug each other and come in different colours. I picked up a white one and a brown one and turned to my husband and said "look its us" he thought is was hilarious and bought me them immediately. A couple behind us in the shop were tutting and muttering about me being so 'insensitive' and another said 'is she really was I allowed to say that'. We had a good laugh about it.

As someone who has had people call me all manner of cruel and horrible names under the sun you know when people are being racist - there was nothing malicious in what you said or how you said it. You are right and they are a bunch of tools!!!

UrsulaBuffayTheVampireSlayer · 05/10/2011 18:21

What a condescending biatch! YWNBU

ilovesooty · 05/10/2011 18:23

I deliver Equality and Diversity training and I think the HV was being ridiculous.

madmomma · 05/10/2011 18:44

Insomnia I'm white, my husband's pakistani, and you should hear some of the stuff that gets said in our house! Grin

Mandy2003 · 05/10/2011 18:47

InsomniaQueen - I have those in brown and scarlet! I'm not sure what races they are meant to signify Grin

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