To be utterly shocked at my friend leaving her family...

[threeinmybed]

I can't believe this is happening, I can't believe I'm posting about this... Been hanging about for a few hours trying to work up the courage and trying to word is post right.
Longtime poster, serial name changer so please bear with me.

My best friend of about 15 years has just upped and left her family. She has a husband and two children (one boy of 3 and a baby girl of 10 months). It happened totally out of the blue, and I did not see it coming at all. I actually work with her DH, who is as shocked as anyone.

We last saw one another on Sunday, for lunch. It was just she and I, and she seemed happy enough but a bit distracted. She said that she and her DH had been going through a rough patch and marriage was just such bloody hard work; she felt too young for all this etc. She asked me if I ever thought about just buggering off somewhere, leaving and never coming back. I laughed and said yes, in my worst moments I did and made a stupid joke out of it. I can't even remember what I said now, it seemed so trivial at the time. She said later on that she'd never seen herself being like this five years ago. I asked if there was anything I could help with, she just brushed it off and said 'nah, I'll get over myself!' like it was a joke and we just carried on chatting.

Yesterday, I was on a team building day at work and I got a text message that said not to worry, but that she was safe and she'd be in touch really soon. I was in the middle of no where so I couldnt call her back. I got home later in the afternoon to find her DH standing at my door, in an absolute state. He said they'd had an argument the night before and that she said she was leaving and not coming back, she wanted a divorce and she couldn't take the kids anymore, not one more second of them. She said she was happy to pay her way for them, but this wasn't the life she wanted and she was sorry.

I should say at this point that she did have PND going back about 8 months ago. But her DH interjected quickly, and she got the treatment she needed. She cited this as well apparently, saying the AD's had helped her see clearly for the first time in years.

When the initial craziness had calmed down, and her DH had gone back home I called my friend, who pretty much confirmed all her DH had said. She said that she was seeing clearly now, she'd not been happy for a while and that being a Mum just wasn't what she wanted. She's happy to pay maintenance for them, but she's not sure about visitation rights etc, maybe when she gets settled she can see the kids at my house? It seems she's been thinking this over for a while. I'm distraught. For her poor family, even myself a bit. I'm cross at myself too. Why didn't I talk to her more on Sunday? Push the issue a bit?

She is staying at her sisters who is a few counties away. Far enough, anyway. I don't know what else to say... I can't think of any other information right now. I couldn't think of anything else to say to her. Please help, I don't actually know what advice to give, or how to help right now. My friend and her DH are a massive part of our lives.

Im glad. It sounds like you're taking it harder the she is. :(

I was happy to be pregnant with DS2 as I thought it was my chance to have a "proper" loving relationship with a child, rather than the pained existence of DS1's early days.

I've shouted from the rooftops that I can't see the difference between my situation and all the men who walk out on their families everyday.

One therapist told me that I didn't abort the children when I had the chance so there was no way I'd hurt them or myself. People just don't believe that a woman can walk out on their children without a backward glance but I'd do it tomorrow if I didn't know that everyone would come looking for me.

Is your friend on ADs? I ask because her behaviour sound disinhibited.

It is telling that your friend said that the AD's had helped them see more clearly.
When I was on AD's I found it difficult to have any emotion. They helped the despair but I could feel happy, excited or a strong feeling of love either.

I think if your friend feels she is being judged badly because she has left , it might make it harder for her to visit the children .

If she loves them like you say she does op , then she will eventually want to see them. If she can be a good parent , but live in another house , does it really matter ? Loads of dads live in seperate houses from their kids , but still manage to be good parents...turn up at school plays ...take kids to doctor ... even ballet lessons ect.

It is possible .

And the kids dad seems capable of coping right now. Nice way he handled it , mummy is at aunties house for rest . They wont be too upset.

Mabey your friend can talk to them over the phone or skype ? .
Perhaps suggest using a contact centre for visits would take the pressure off her ?

If this is handled sensitively the kids will be ok .

Sorry to hear your news OP . For me, there is something weird about her sister being involved. Yu said her sister didn't come to her wedding [strange] and that she didn't mention her much, and yet she has confided in her over this. Do you think her sister resents you as a best friend? Is she trying to get closer to your friend by maybe encouraging her to do this?

helpmabob yes, I had also assumed reading this that the troublesome child was reacting to something happening at home. Maybe the depression - I imagine it would have made her emotionally remote. OP you probably saw a very different side of your friend out and socialising to the person she was at home.

The h should tell nursery so nursery can keep an eye see if ds behaviour is worse /improves. But telling ds she gone away to visit auntie is fine for now.

The ds could have behavioural issues who knows some with issues are better in certain environments

I really don't think it sounds as if she has PND.

I understand her saying that the AD's made her think clearly. I was very unhappy in my 1st marriage, but didn't really understand why. AD's helped me understand that it was my marriage making me miserable. So it does make sesnse that AD's would help her understand that it was her marriage and kids making her feel miserable.

I totally understand you being shocked at what has happened. Unfortunately a close friend of mine, out of the blue, killed herself a year ago. Some people don't share how bad they are feeling and put on a face and act as if everything is fine.

It is often easier to talk honestly to people not involved in the immediate situation, than people who are involved or that you regularly see. Thats why so many people will tell counsellors and people on help lines things that they won't tell their DH or bf. It is probably because she is so close to you that she couldn't talk honestly to you.

You say she is a great mother - and that you got tips from her. I wonder if she was trying too hard to be a great mother and not allowing herself any slack.

I kind of understand the sisters reaction as well. Saying you think someone has PND or depression can come across as a way of ignoring the real issues. I know you didn't mean this, but its like a DH who bats aside his wifes anger at something he has done by saying oh you must have pmt.

The sister is trying to say no she doesn't have pnd, but she has some issues in her life that is making her desperately unhappy.

I think it is too early to say whether she will live apart from her kids or go back to them. But actaully I think it would be good to support her to have contact as soon as possible with her kids. The longer she is away from them, the easier it might make it for her to just walk away.

My stepmum left her 4 kids, 3 with their step dad and 1 with his real dad (all of them together so in other words, 3 weren't even with their own dads)
They have never ever forgiven her, they have the most dysfunctional lives possible, lovely girls, divorced, unmarried, divorced, widowed, divorced, over and over (ok the widowed was irrelavent) and all have kids with men who they aren't with now and weren't married to.
If not handled well, it can be terrible. If handled well by the dad, they have the same chances as any child left by their dad.
My step mum royally f'ed up her kids in the way she left. She didn't even tell my dad she had kids at all at first until he asked her to move in with him. He didn't want 4 f'ed up kids with him so they stayed with their step dad (and 1 went to her real dad which caused even more familial breakdown).
My stepmum made it clear that she didn't want them living with her, that's what did it.

We do as a general rule, condemn women more than men for leaving their kids. My dad moved 8 hours away when I was 14, I was upset, my mum moved thousands of miles away at 18 and I was distraught. I think my views are coloured due to my own experiences (well they would be!)

Hope you are feeling better OP.
I wouldn't read too much into the DS behaving worse for the parents and then better for others, maybe he's just a bit spoilt. Lots of DCs behave better for other people IME.
I also think and hope if she was trying to escape from something sinister she wouldn't have left the DCs.

I really hope your friend sorts herself out. I've been at the point several times where I was fantasising about just walking away from my life. For me, there was no option, DS doesn't have anyone else. However, perhaps if his father had been around I would have gone too.

Maybe walking out was the best thing for her to do. You hear these dreadful stories where parents who can't cope, kill or emotionally damage their children. If she manages to maintain contact and visitation, there is a big chance that the kids will not suffer. For this, she needs your support. She has said she intends to financially support her kids, and to see them in the future. This is a good sign. She hasn't just walked out of their lives never to be seen again. And don't take this all on yourself. There is nothing you could have done to have changed it.

Agree that women who leave their families should not be judged any differently to men who leave and that it's sexist to presume she must be ill.

I would guess that just like when men leave suddenly and without notice, there's someone else involved and she perhaps stayed with this person somewhere, the night she left. The reason she may have gone to her sister is because she was perhaps the only person who disliked her husband or didn't approve of the marriage, so your friend thought she'd get some support there, for her actions.

If this is the case, then for the time being at least, the DCs are much better off with the more unselfish parent who will put their needs first. The sex of that parent is irrelevant.

If she is suffering with PND a break may be good actually mothers with PND especially if there the main carer can become very nasty with their children purely out of not coping,frustration etc

getting herself sorted sould be quite good.

I'm sorry OP, I didn't mean to suggest yesterday that you should have known what a serious thing she was contemplating.

But, I'm struck by how your response to her reflected your expectations of her -- the idea that she must be joking because of course she wouldn't leave her kids. And even now, you say you want to talk to her as if she is only having a short break because you don't accept that she could want to leave.

From my own experience, the hardest bit was that feeling that of course I just had to put up with things. I felt really trapped. There were times that I wanted to rebel and run away, what kept me home was mostly guilt and fear -- emotions that may be suppressed in your friend if she is medicated.

I don't mean to say you should have done anything differently just that it may not be her marriage or her kids she is running from, but just all the expectations put on her to be a good mum despite her difficulties, or the expectation that she must be happy with her life because there are kids in it even if it's not the life she really wanted. I think minx raises some really good points there.

And I think you need to separate your feelings about what she's done from your feelings about the fact that she didn't tell you.

"it's sexist to presume she must be ill."
it isnt sexist - she had diagnosed PND. so it is really not a leap to make an asusmption that she may still be suffering.

my exP has had on off depression/MH/anxiety issues for eyars - so if he does anything "mad" then yes i think it is down to his MH. however rational or well thought out it might seem

otoh, she may have made a full recovery from PND and this is a fully thought out rational decision. only she knows - whatever. op has to come to terms with it as does the H . dc are young and will get over it and learn to live with the situation. if the h stays strong, accepts this as her decision and moves on. .

Very sad and very upsetting for you OP. I can appreciate the immense shock you must be going through.

Brilliant posts from lesley, though you are probably too shocked to get your head around anything much.

off the top of my head I know two women who did this. One never returned, had significant mental health problems (distress) but the toll it took on the family left behind was immense and still is. Another woman who left was a vicar's wife. she was gone for close to a year, was resolute and had no intention of going back. she had a lot of close support/therapy to work out the issues behind her leaving and was eventually able to return. I suppose it's not hard to see the pressure and expectation she was under as a vicar's wife to be perfect. I wish someone who has done this could post on your thread so you could get her perspective.

I'm also not sure that what your friend has done - or any woman who does this - is necessarily selfish. It is very probably very complex but the way your friend did it reminds me of suicide re suicides usually truly believe that everyone would be better off without them and think they are doing everyone a favour, clearing the decks so their loved ones can have a happy life. They are grossly deluded but that is the nature of the vicious illness they are labouring under. But here I am assuming your friend is ill - it sits so badly with us for a mother to leave her children that we think she must be ill. But yes, I do think she is ill, under intolerable pressure somehow and can't see a way out, that this is the only way.

imo it is significant that she is calmly expecting you to stick by her and to facilitate contact etc ie she seems blind to the bomb that has gone off, the turmoil she has left behind. I would try to stay calm OP, as hard as that is. Be honest but try to stay calm - try to listen, as much to hear from her own mouth why she did this - but don't put up with/do more than you can. She has her sister to support her - though her sister is an unknown quantity at this stage.

I do wish you all well and I hope that, eventually, this awful situation is resolved.

I meant that it's sexist to presume she's ill and that there are no other likely hypotheses, because of the societal norm that mothers never leave their children. If a man leaves without notice, it is presumed that there is an OW involved and that he is selfish, not ill. However, he is then not judged as badly by society for years thereafter. This situation is inescapably gendered.

I wouldn't be able to maintain a friendship with someone who did this to their children.
Lots of people I know have suffered with PND, but once you have childrn you are responsible for them, and you haveto find a way to balance your needs with theirs.
I don't respect any parent who anandons such small children. If a man did this, I would feel the same, I don't think the fact that she is a woman means that she desrves more sympathy or understanding than a man who does the same thing.
It's awful to think of those children growing up motherless, it will have a huge impact on their lives and relationships long into adulthood.
She chose to have the children- yes, it's tough when they are so small but you owe it to yourself and everyone involved to find a way to cope.

"dc are young and will get over it and learn to live with the situation."

Let me assure you, this not the case. The knowledge that your mother or father abandoned you as a baby effects you well into adulthood.

Hi everyone, thanks for all the messages.

I suppose I'm saying that she's having a rest, because I want to give her a way back from this in the short term. Just because I never followed through with it, doesn't mean I didn't think about my escape for days sometimes when it was rough. I'm hoping, really hoping that she's just gone that one step further, and in a couple of days/weeks, she'll be back. Then imagine how weird she'd feel in front of people, you know? If we'd told people that she'd run away.

I think I'd say the same thing to a man, as well. Sometimes you hear of splits occurring with the blokes at work. I've never once tried to talk to them about the practicalities about it, more said 'I'm sure it's just a temporary blip, maybe you just need some time apart to decide', or something like that.

I don't know at what stage I'm going to have to start believing that this isn't a 'blip' and get cracking with the reality of it; ie sit down with her DH and help him claim the tax credits etc, get maintenance (csa, perhaps? I'm not sure), he's going to have to leave his job as it involves a lot of travel (for now he has compassionate leave) and his mum can't stay forever, they'll have to move house b/c without his job they can't afford it (rented accommodation), other people will have to become involved as well. All this will make it harder, at least mentally for her to return. I think it'd make it hard for her DH as well for her to just come back.

Should I advise him to set a deadline, whereby if she doesn't come back by X date, these things are going to have to be sorted? At the moment, he has 2 weeks compassionate leave, but I know that this can be extended by about 6 weeks, at a guess. After then, he's going to have to look at putting in his notice and searching for a job closer to home.

Apologies btw, if im not able to come back to the thread today; I'm working extra hours this evening to get some time off tomorrow afternoon to sort her DH out with some food. From m&s, admittedly but I'm not Delia! I wouldn't inflict that on them!

I think it's entirely reasonable that he asks her whether she sees this as a permanent thing, or whether she just needs some space. The point is, whatever her reasons for this, she has a responsibility to talk to her H about her plans for the future. As for what other people are told, I think the H needs to get a steer from her about that. She might want everyone to be told the truth, after all.