To be utterly shocked at my friend leaving her family...

[threeinmybed]

I can't believe this is happening, I can't believe I'm posting about this... Been hanging about for a few hours trying to work up the courage and trying to word is post right.
Longtime poster, serial name changer so please bear with me.

My best friend of about 15 years has just upped and left her family. She has a husband and two children (one boy of 3 and a baby girl of 10 months). It happened totally out of the blue, and I did not see it coming at all. I actually work with her DH, who is as shocked as anyone.

We last saw one another on Sunday, for lunch. It was just she and I, and she seemed happy enough but a bit distracted. She said that she and her DH had been going through a rough patch and marriage was just such bloody hard work; she felt too young for all this etc. She asked me if I ever thought about just buggering off somewhere, leaving and never coming back. I laughed and said yes, in my worst moments I did and made a stupid joke out of it. I can't even remember what I said now, it seemed so trivial at the time. She said later on that she'd never seen herself being like this five years ago. I asked if there was anything I could help with, she just brushed it off and said 'nah, I'll get over myself!' like it was a joke and we just carried on chatting.

Yesterday, I was on a team building day at work and I got a text message that said not to worry, but that she was safe and she'd be in touch really soon. I was in the middle of no where so I couldnt call her back. I got home later in the afternoon to find her DH standing at my door, in an absolute state. He said they'd had an argument the night before and that she said she was leaving and not coming back, she wanted a divorce and she couldn't take the kids anymore, not one more second of them. She said she was happy to pay her way for them, but this wasn't the life she wanted and she was sorry.

I should say at this point that she did have PND going back about 8 months ago. But her DH interjected quickly, and she got the treatment she needed. She cited this as well apparently, saying the AD's had helped her see clearly for the first time in years.

When the initial craziness had calmed down, and her DH had gone back home I called my friend, who pretty much confirmed all her DH had said. She said that she was seeing clearly now, she'd not been happy for a while and that being a Mum just wasn't what she wanted. She's happy to pay maintenance for them, but she's not sure about visitation rights etc, maybe when she gets settled she can see the kids at my house? It seems she's been thinking this over for a while. I'm distraught. For her poor family, even myself a bit. I'm cross at myself too. Why didn't I talk to her more on Sunday? Push the issue a bit?

She is staying at her sisters who is a few counties away. Far enough, anyway. I don't know what else to say... I can't think of any other information right now. I couldn't think of anything else to say to her. Please help, I don't actually know what advice to give, or how to help right now. My friend and her DH are a massive part of our lives.

"But who in the fuck does this?"
"maybe call police as possible suicide risk?"

Fathers do as the OP's friend has done, up and down the country, every day of the week

I was about to post the same

She might just need some breathing space.

It is unusual for a woman to walk out on her children, but it does happen. My own biological mother did it to her two oldest children when they were young. She carried the pattern on by having me adopted too...

Some women shouldnt have children.. but society does tend to make women feel as if they must have children and that by not doing so, they are less of a person... it sounds to me like this woman did not enjoy being a parent, and has taken the way out that she feels is best. Selfish, yup. But the alternative of two kids growing up with a mother who resents them is just as bad if not worse. At least this way once the dust has settled for the father, he may go on to meet someone who will love those kids and be a proper mum to them. They are young enough and will survive it.

Like has been said, Fathers do this all the time and there isn't the outrage or name calling that women get, it's extremely unfair. She clearly needs a break and it sounds like she is still depressed and may be a risk to herself.

I couldn't do what she has for one second, I couldn't and wouldn't leave my children but I'm not living her life and experiencing what she is feeling. I find it harder to judge people these days. Yes it's awful for the children but it's not been that long yet and she may well change her mind. I would try to support her as best as you can and talk to her about how she's feeling but also remind her that her children are missing her too.

I would definitely let her get her feelings out though as it will help her, let her say what she needs to and work through things.

there would be absolutely no support here for a man who left his partner and children saying he didn't even think he wanted to see the children again. none.

I think that having a life-changing moment is fair enough - I've been there. But children is not something you can just decide you didn't want as part of your life plan, she's had them, she has a responsibility towards them, she can't just walk away from that and IMO she needs to be told that in no uncertain terms rather than being supported in doing so.

Op I am sure you mean well but there is IMO no way you should be facilitating her potential future contact arrangements with her children should she decide to go down that route. I think you can be there to listen but allowing contact at your house etc is going a step too far in getting involved in someone else's split IMO.

I am going to say what people would say to any woman on here - tell the dh to get legal advice wrt her paying maintanence for the dc, and to look into him having permanent residency. She shouldn't be allowed to just up and leave and then walk back when she's done having her crisis.

I think getting angry at her is fair enough - anger is no more than she deserves - selfish cow.

It is selfish whether you are male or female, I'd be immensely upset and disappointed at either.

Cross post.

Its only because of social conditioning more women don't do this.

I've known 2 women do this. One had depression and was very disconnected from her feelings. And one found relationships incredibly difficult - had some aspergic traits.

I think if I was her friend I would take everything she said at face value and try to persuade her into therapy and into her doctors to review her medication.

I would totally believe that she can't be around the children and I would suggest to arrange long hours at nursery to minimise time with them, evening classes/exercise/nights out.

I'd try and focus on short, quality time with them rather than try and shoe horn her into a motherhood she doesn't want.

This is a long term issue and being judgemental will not help. Though I totally understand your feelings.

oh and I would say exactly the same if a father did the same.

I have had tears come to my eyes reading this, not for the family but for you, I can see, almost feel the love you have for her and the anguish you are feeling now with the the conflicting feelings.
I think the advice to get angry today, put that anger on paper or on here and then tomorrow try and set all that aside and be as good a friend to both of them as you can. It takes a great deal for a woman to leave her children (and for a man to but sadly that is more socially acceptable) and she must be going through all sorts of pain, right now she is probably riding high on the adrenalin rush of having 'escaped' but soon, be is days or weeks from now she is going to crash. I hope her sister is sensible and able to suggest she sees a doctor and helps her arrange for counselling to go through all the things that have brought her to this point and sort out what her future is going to be. If your friend is willing to listen to you (and it is clear she feels able to talk to you and that you are an important part of her life) this is something you can help her arrange and support her through, it may help the anger you feel towards her to be actively helping her sort out her emotions and find the correct path for her (be that as her children's primary carer or not).
Support the DH as best you can to make arrangements for this transition time, try and show that you will not take sides but you will do your best to support (where you feel able) in a constructive compassionate way.

I think you said all the right things on Sunday, you couldn't have known and it seems by that point she was possibly feeling you out, would you turn on her once she went through with leaving or would she be able to do as she has and call and talk with you.

Be kind to yourself in this, it must be a terrible shock, when friends of mine spilt I was shocked with myself that I found myself so upset they were splitting and really wanting them to stay together, I was shocked at how emotionally connected to my friends marriage I was, I was really upset that they had split and it was just a 'normal' split as in kids stayed with Mum, they moved to a different house in the village and Dad had the children at least 3 nights a week and every other weekend (it may be this kind of arrangement that your friends end up with only with the Father as the primary carer). What I am trying to say, in a really round about way is that you are clearly a good friend and a good person but it won't make you any less of those two things if you realise that you can not offer the high level of support in this, especially given your own struggles with PND, the well being of you and your family has to come first. Sending you warm and caring thoughts

I do think it's different when she is probably depressed and at breaking point, it's not just something you can "get over" or "get on with", she does need support and help to get better.

Agree with wannabe.

And yes, the father needs to get legal advice asap.

Don't text her, don't be in contact, keep your anger to yourself. Long term, you can point out that access at your house isn't practical or desirable - you are not family. Right now isn't the time.

the DH needs all the support you can give him. While tax credits would normally be paid to the mother, if the father is the main carer, he'll get them, he should find out what he can get along with getting the child benefit moved to being paid to him.

Are there any family members who can help him out taking the DCs one day a week to reduce the childcare costs?

Is he a member of a church? They often will rally round at times like this and while you might not have the time for cooking him extra meals, the older members of the congration will have him drowning in filling stews and harty pies. He'll also get support from people who have no emotional involvement in this whole sorry mess.

Focus on the practical for now - this might be something that lasts a week and then she comes home and you don't want to have burned your bridges if it's just a minor wobble.

Im with slavetofilofax and porca - yes of course she could be ill but there seems to be a lot of double standards here - how many people would asume a father had depression if he walked out on his children or how many would just be calling him a bstard?

OP I really feel for her family and you and the people that have said the emotional damage caused by a Mother walking out doesnt heal have apoint - I work with people who have various emotional difficulties, a lot who have low self esteem - caused by thinking things like "am I so worthless that the person who is meant to love and care for me over everyone else (my mum) didnt love me enough to saty and look after me" type of thing. So sad.

PND can cause you to think your children will be better off without you but this doesnt strike me (from what you have said) about your friend - jsut taht she feels her life will be better without her children - not thinking about them if you see what I mean. Some people are just selfish at the end of the day.

Oh god, how sad for the children. And her husband of course. COuld it still be PND - it certainly can stop you thinking clearly.

But if it is genuine, she has had the decency to be honest and up front - how many dads swear they'll keep in touch and then lose contact completely within a few years?

I'd struggle to be civil to her if I'm honest. But I guess things must have got pretty bad. Feel so sorry for all of them.

I know fridakahlo I know I shouldn't get angry with her, I know that. But honestly, does she think I haven't wanted to run as far away as possible some days? That sometimes I think I'd love to be irresponsible again. But I don't. I don't do it because I love my family more than I want to get away on my own.

God, I feel so angry. She still wants me to ring her later tonight.

I think if she has been suffering from PND that probably has a lot to do with it - 8 months is a very short time, you don't just get over it that quickly ime.

It actually doesnt sound to me like she is depressed. It sounds like the reality of the life she was living depressed her, and that was the genuine reason for leaving. The holiday made her realise that she wanted out, and off she has gone.

I do think its bloody selfish. But plenty of men do it all the time. It is just more shocking when a woman does it.

Well then text back that you're not able to talk this evening, and screen calls. She has her sister, she doesn't need to draw extra, non-family members into her drama and get you on side.

Some women shouldnt have children.. but society does tend to make women feel as if they must have children and that by not doing so, they are less of a person... it sounds to me like this woman did not enjoy being a parent, and has taken the way out that she feels is best. Selfish, yup. But the alternative of two kids growing up with a mother who resents them is just as bad if not worse.

Squeaky toy - you are so right, good post.

Perhaps if we didn't idealise the mothers role so much a lot of women would find it wasier to be one. And for those who do find it impossible, we might not insist that they are evil for trying to escape, and we migt not assume that the children will have their lives ruined.

Better to be brought up by a parent who wants to be one than one that is forced to be.

duckdodgers If a father had being diagnosed with depression had been on AD and had CBT then within a couple of months walked out on his family I would be wondering if his depression had returned.

Conversely, had the OP's friend not been diagnosed with PND already I probably wouldn't have suggested depression.

Depression does not make walking out less selfish or in some way alright. Simply it may be an explanation of why the OP's friend is acting selfishly.

Her sister emailed me back. I'll just outline what she said, because I don't want to cut and paste it on here, obviously. She said that whilst she appreciated me getting in touch because it would be useful for contact arrangements for the future (ie she'd know where to drop my friend off; friend has no car, she left on the train her DH has the car), she didn't appreciate my suggesting her sister was mentally unstable. She was perfectly lucid and in control, they've been discussing this between themselves for sometime and it wasn't a shock when she found my friend on her doorstep Monday morning (I assume she stayed in a hotel Sunday evening then?). She said at the end of the day, it's my friend's decision and not mine, and if I had an issue with that then I'm not much of a best mate. she also said loads of men leave their kids every day, they're not depressed just not happy trapped into that life etc. There's a few other things as well, don't want to say them on here though because whilst no one knows me in rl on here, I still think some of it is quite personal.

Er, so that's that. Her sister seems convinced that it's a permanent thing, she did mention helping my friend look for a place to live in the next few weeks once she's got a job sorted.

I'm so shocked for the minute, I don't think I can type anything else. I'm just getting a cup of tea. Too early for ? fucking hell.

My mum has bipolar. Although she didn't officially leave us, she was in patient for two years, and used to go to bed in the afternoons. We also used to go to her friend's houses quite often for a couple of days. I imagine your friend could still have mh issues. Sometimes people with depression need to "check out" for a while. Your friend's version is quite dramatic. Fwiw, I have forgiven my mum, after all it's brain chemistry that causes bipolar and so no blame can be attached. But I can't trust, confide in or rely in her. She would like it to be different but since it has taken me twenty years to understand how to live with someone as unreliable as her, I have a broken and limited relationship with her and mother daughter style one with my fantastic mil. There will be consequences to this lady leaving her children and it might be a hard job supporting her.

Not every woman on this planet is cut out to be a mother.And it sounds like your friend is one of those women.It's a pity she didn't realise it before she had kids,but it's too late now.

I don't believe it's PND that has caused this,I think she genuinely does NOT like the responsibilty of being a parent.In exactly the same way some men don't,and scarper off.

threeinmybed,all you can do now is go with your feelings.If you feel like shouting at her,then do so.If you want to ignore her,that's ok too.

When the dust settles for her on this one,and she has had a week or two of fantasy life without kids,the reality will hit her.And that's when her decision will become clear to her,if she sticks to it,then that is final.And absolutely nothing you say or do will change her feelings/thoughts on it.She has done this for selfish reasons (it seems to be all about her,the situation doesnt suit her.A depressed Mother usually feels that they aren't good enough for their husband and kids....she seems to think that her kids and husband aren't good enough for her.

I wish her luck in dealing with her conscience,leaving your kids (whether you are male or female) is a shitty thing to do,in my opinion.

I'm with Lydia, she has her family to help and support her, and you're probably not emotionally capable of supporting her anyway (which is entirely understandable, I'd be furious as well). Her husband and children really need your help, and that's what you should concentrate on.

I agree with you about PND by the way, it does not magically disappear if you have a holiday - that's how I distinguished between my full-on baby blues and the PND that the doctors suspected.