To ask if any of you avoid taking your DCs to restaurants?

[YouDoTheMath]

I'm thinking of avoiding them until my toddler is older. She's really well behaved normally but the thought of taking her for a meal stresses me out. She doesn't seem to enjoy the experience and just kicks off.

I'm not one of those people who doesn't care what others think - it bothers me if I feel I'm spoiling things for others, so I end up either rushing through the meal or taking her home before it's even started.

Does it make sense to avoid such situations in future, or should I get her used to it?

Jee- that's a good point. I had three 4 and under, then 4 , 6 and under. Going out to eat was a nightmare. Now that the oldest is almost 10 and the youngest almost 4, we can just about brave McDonalds with all 4. But I've taken both my 9 and 8 year old out by themselves to eat, without any prior experience, and they were both beautifully behaved.I was quite surprised!

jeee - yes, you're right - but my sister had 3 under 3 and managed to take them out fairly successfully as well. Admittedly to fast-serving Chinese style places or the local pub restaurant - but there were no cataclysmic events as a result!

please dont avoid it - the sooner you get your children used to going out and behaving when out the better life will be for you!
Golden rule though - never let them get up from the table - it's the beginning of the end

Thumbwitch - of course it's possible to do both. But surely for most children, if they can behave well for meals at home, they can behave well for meals in a restaurant? It's not like the rules are massively different. (ouryve - I take on board that this might not be true for all children - but I don't think that most posters on this thread are talking about children with SN.)

The rules are not necessarily different, cornflakegirl, but the environment is. And taking aside cases like Ourvye's, small children who are unused to the restaurant scenario may find lots to excite/overstimulate/confuse/distract them - hence the acclimatisation process being quite useful as well as teaching them table manners.

Well I suppose it depends if you ahappy to only go out to eat when you have a babysitter for 7 years until youngest is 5. Then by all means wait it out until they are school age. However if you start earlier , you will be able to take them out and enjoy it long before then.Obviously children with ons are different and I can quite see how hard it would be in those circumstances and that one might want to avoid the stress.

I Meat sns

"Like others, we go to pizza hut/express and the like, where it doesn't matter if they leave a mountain of food under the table or crayon on the table."

Tell that to someone like me who worked in those kind of places. :( This comment made me so sad. Why do some people think that just because you have a child, the whole world should be your personal playground?

As for the European attitude to dining out, I think it's lovely that people can be guaranteed an elegant, adult experience when they go out. Not wanting to deal with a toddler's potential invasive noise and mess in a public adult area isn't "positively Victorian", that's a wild exaggeration.

When ds is old enough to appreciate the experience, he will enjoy restaurants, but until that time, I get stressed, he gets stressed, the staff and diners get stressed, who's actually benefiting from this?

bit critical are you suggesting dibers take a mop and broom
when we ate out and did weaning it was messy,food was on floor,couple snapped crayons.i am appreciative someone has to clean up.and its a physical hard job. but realistically babies/kids are messy and pizza hut/express/giraffe seem quite used to it and tolerant.if as a family we stopped eating out because food dropped,and mess...well wed never leave house. i ti well and appreciate being able to geyt out.but we dont feel embarrassed or guilty about mess and noisy kids in establishments that cater for children,have children menu ,high chairs and crayons. all obvious cues the trade is welcome,and mess inevitable

Can I just add that yes, our children are messy when we go out and I appreciate someone has to clear it up...that's why I always leave a 20% tip.

Like Missorinoco I think it completely depends on temperament of the child and I really don't think it's about 'training'. We eat every meal at home together and the kids know how to behave in a civilised way at the table, but usually at home they don't get called to the table until the dinner is ready - absolutely not what happens in a restaurant. They can do the restaurant thing if we have to (and sometimes it's fun) but frankly I always found it stressful when dc were preschool age and avoided it where possible.

I must say, I've never really associated Bacchus with Pizza Hut. :o

As a matter of interest, I wonder how many of us were regularly taken to restaurants as kids? We used to have an annual trip to Little Chef. True, I didn't know what a pepper grinder was when I went to university but it hasn't held me back. Too much. Maybe this is why it's just not top of my list of important-things-to-teach-the-kids.

btw blu and jee :) :) :) can we add to list the smuggety smug parents who attribute the fact that their ds1 has a great relationship with newborn ds2 to 'involving him in caring for the new baby' or 'reading lots of books to prepare him'. (Now why didn't I think of that?)

wimpy occasionally or caffs down the barras as a wean

I forgot to mention my excitement aged 9 at going to a Mcdonalds birthday party. I saved the serviette, chip box and party hat and then made a display with them on the pin board in my bedroom. Make sure you take your dc out to restaurant pre-9 to avoid a similarly tragic situation. (Much more embarrassing than not knowing what to do with mussels).

I'm a little shocked that some parents are expecting restaurant staff to clear up their mess. We did BLW and I have never, ever left a mound of food under the table, we clear up any mess or dropped food because that's our job.

To respond to lightroom's comment, we didn't get taken out much as children, probably a few times a year. I didn't go to a Michelin-starred restaurant until I was in my teens and I found the idea quite daunting when I could afford to go as an adult. I don't want my daughter to miss out on that great foodie adventure because she's too daunted, I want her to think fine dining is a deserved pleasure, not something too rarified for her to contemplate.

again to ligthroom's comment: we got taken out quite regularly as children, to teashops (God I'm old!), Wimpy restaurant (as opposed to take away/fast food joint - I mean the table service type), Chinese restaurant and that was probably it while we were under 10. My Dad often took us to tea shops on his own (3 of us!) and says he was frequently complimented on how well behaved we were.

I do think it might be the "eating dinner at table" thing that makes the biggest difference, but I of course could be generalising based on my own experiences.

And we never left a mound of food under any table - I get waay too embarrassed for that and would always pick stuff up.

We went out to eat a lot as children (slightly different though: my father was an immigrant and my mother couldn't cook his "home" food, so we went out to one kind of restaurant only!).

We do go out with DS, but only at lunchtime. He loves food and eating, and often eats better in a restaurant than at home, and he's usually pretty well behaved. He's only 14 months though, so we may have horrors to come. I definitely wouldn't even try with two toddlers.

I take my children to restuarants for lunch not dinner unless a special occasion. We have done this since my first was a baby, and went through a period of about 6 months when she was 2 of avoiding them as she was hard work!

But, she is now 5 and she has benefited from the continued experience, and DS aged almost 2 so far is good in restuarants.

They only learn how to behave by going to them in the first place, if you avoid it, how will they ever know how to behave?

England is pretty uptight about children, and quite intolerant imo. I have been to lots of restuarants in France, Spain, USA where they are so much more accepting of children in restuarants, it is far more normal so there is much less annoyance from other customers as many have their own children with them. They are also better catered for, in terms of child friendly food, in USA they give boxes for leftovers so no wastage, crayons and toys to play with, staff who don't ignore them, places to put pushchairs, decent highchairs. One place I went to had a great car seat holder so young babies could sit at the table in their car seat.

However, I do pick the places I go to with care, I think about the type of place it is, what type of people will be eating there, will they be ok with the children getting down from the table, do they have space to allow me wander up and down with a 2yo before the food arrives, will I feel terribly embarrassed by the mess they might make (which I clear up). Do they do food that my children might eat, will the experience be stressful or will it be a good thing to do, can the children break anything that is around on display? And we do not stay for 3 course meals but rather, eat, read the paper a bit then go.

Doing this regularly meant we could go out and have a fab evening meal to celebrate our wedding anniversary recently. The food was good (not cuisine, but did not expect that with children), there was a lot of space for the children to walk around and they made it perfectly clear they were happy with this. There was the pub/eating area which was casual/formal or the restuarant eating area with set tables, wine glasses and people having intimate meals. We opted for bar area so as not to disturb the others, and the kids and we had a great time without causing chaos and my children were perfectly well behaved. When they started to get fractious we were ready to leave.

England is pretty uptight about children, and quite intolerant imo. I have been to lots of restuarants in France, Spain, USA where they are so much more accepting of children in restuarants, it is far more normal so there is much less annoyance from other customers as many have their own children with them. They are also better catered for, in terms of child friendly food, in USA they give boxes for leftovers so no wastage, crayons and toys to play with, staff who don't ignore them, places to put pushchairs, decent highchairs. One place I went to had a great car seat holder so young babies could sit at the table in their car seat.

At the end of the day, I have children. I am not going to stop my life and doing the things I enjoy because I have them, I am going to share those things with my children, just adapt how I do it.

of course restaurant staff clean up after diners leave.whats the problem with that?are you advocating wipe,collect,scoop,scrape every dropped bit food under table...hell if i wanted that id stay at home for dinner

so should adult customers also wipe and clean,get under table collect any dropped food or spills? or just the parents with children

i tip well as im grateful.but you know what, no i wont be stressing and cleaning as i go when im out in restaurant

scottishmummy I think restaurant staff expect to clear up a certain amount of food, but the PP referred to 'mounds', not a small amount. Part of the experience of dining, for me anyway, is interaction with the service staff, why should I make their life more difficult for something that is only a minor inconvenience for me? In reality most of them are grateful for my offer to help but deal with the excess mess anyway, so it's a win-win situation.

As someone wiser than me said, "you can tell a lot about a person by the way they treat a waiter".

I agree that children shouldn't be taken to restaurants until they have appropriate table manners. That of course includes not dropping food under the table while eating.

I also think that quite a lot of children manage to have appropriate table manners early on in life because their parents have brought them up properly, and there is therefore no reason to avoid taking them to restaurants!

I love taking my children to restaurants, but they are now 11 and 8yrs.

When they were toddler stage we did take them but less so and I'd usually come home thinking 'I've just spent half the time walking around outside or helping to colour in a space ship, skipped the coffee and barely spoken to another adult without interruption, what a waste of 100 odd quid.'

I go to restaurants because I want to relax, enjoy the food, but also hugely for the conversation. It's a rime to relax and talk, enjoy the wine and feel unhurried.

Its now like this, my DCs chat with us or to each other, really enjoy the food and can stay out later.

When they were younger we had to entertain them and keep the meal moving at a pace and get out pretty quickly. No point really, get a take away. Or a babysitter.

My message is: do it if it's enjoyable, don't if it's not, and don't worry you very quickly do get to a point where it is fun with them.

And all this 'restaurant training' is bollocks.

Train them with table manners at home, then a couple of meals out aged 8years and they should pretty much be able to get the hang of this 'restaurant eating skill' .

have been taking our children to restaurants since babies,call ahead ok it with restaurant. if the happy to accommodate diners with babies then we book, if not we dont.

I have never felt the need to check with a restaurant whether or not it can accommodate babies/children. My babies/children have had no special needs that need accommodating!