To end a lifelong friendship because of this?

[gomummygo]

Should probably name change but oh well. I have posted about this once before, about a year ago and I've stuck it out until now, BUT...

Lifelong friend, generally nice person, but one of her two DCs is utterly horrible to be around. :( I know, it sounds awful to say. It's well past being a phase, we're talking years now of incredibly obnoxious behaviour. Obnoxious is the exact word but can't begin to describe how extreme it is. Friend says that her DC are "free spirits" and does not try to curb it at all. Her other DC is far better behaved.

My DH does not want to associate with her & her DH at all because of this and I can't blame him. He'd prefer our DS not be around them because of the things that he picks up and we then have to explain why we don't do these things.

A year ago I received advice on here to try to see her without DC. Well, shortly after I posted that she told me about wanting this DC to spend lots more time with me, what a good role model I was, etc., so it made the advice tough to follow! I haven't wanted to give up on a v. long term friendship and I have tried so hard to grit my teeth and bear it but I just cannot stand to be with them anymore!!! It is so frustrating.

We are good enough friends that I have tried to speak to her a couple of times about the behaviours. Problem is that we have completely different parenting philosophies and she really sees a lot of the behaviours as "self expression" that she doesn't want to "quash." I, on the other hand, see it as rude/ill mannered/generally obnoxious.

I really didn't want to lose her friendship over this but I just cannot see how we can continue a friendship when I dread seeing her and now find myself constantly making ridiculous excuses to avoid her, except on rare occasions when I know she will be without said child. She really does have a good heart, she was one of the few friends who stuck around when I made a big (positive for me) life change a few years back.

So if you've gotten this far, AIBU to give up on the friendship? There isn't really much left of it anyway at this point I guess, but I'm :( about it.

Be brutal, I feel like I deserve it for even asking, but between having my house destroyed and listening to an endless stream of incredibly rude drivel, I am at my wits end and genuinely have no idea where to go from here.

She sounds a bit deluded tbh. As though you are being fussy for wanting your curtain rails actually attached to your walls.
I agree that it is good you have planted a seed. You won't be the last mum friend who speaks to her about her insane different style of parenting. Maybe eventually she will realise that everyone else isn't being fussy.

Aw Go... maybe I'm an optimist, I think I am really, but still send her a birthday card on her birthday, and a Christmas card (at Christmas obviously) and leave it at that.

It may feel false, because you're relieved, and she's hurting, but if neither of you cared at all, you'd have let go a little more so there would be no going back.

YANBU to feel relieved, and it IS sad even if its right. She is NBU for putting her family first and I'd question HER more as a mother and person if she had said 'okay friend I'll change my parenting because YOU say so' she sounds like she has a strong idea of who she is as a parent, even if it turns out wrong, and for that, there is a certain amount of credit to be given isn't there? We're all just doing what we think is right after all, and for many of us, time will prove us right or wrong!

Your DH is right, you have closure of sorts, but there's a crack in the door for if you need each other... you never know what the future holds.

Good luck to you and I hope you feel less stressed, I think you've actually been a true friend, and I can't help but hope that one day you two will be able to have a friendship again. Whether it happens or not who knows!

You did the right thing for you, now lets see what time does.

go, you have been the best friend to her that you possibly could be, because you were honest and respected her enough to have the difficult conversation rather than just avoid her for ever more and leave her hanging, not knowing why. Very few people are brave enough to be truthful with their friends. Perhaps when she has calmed down and some time has passed, she will come to see how hard it was for you and will recognise the truth in what you said.

If not, well that's unfortunate, but the way it goes sometimes. When I look back on a very close friendship that I no longer have, I remember her with fondness and I genuinely wish her happiness. I miss her, even now, but I know that it was the right thing to do and have come to accept that not all relationships are meant to last forever. It's a shame but things do change.

The fact that you are relieved is key to knowing that you were right to do it.

You know you have done the right thing . It is kinder to be open rather than avoid but uncomfortable to do. Well done OP

aldi she didn't ask her to change her parenting style. and a strong identity as a parent isn't always something to give credit too because not all ways are equal. some methods = neglect or abuse or laziness or are just really ill informed and disastrous.

she just wanted to respect their differences and that it didn't work seeing each other altogether and to agree to see each other without kids.

Well done for broaching the subject OP, IMO you've done the right thing even if you feel like you've failed.

I was in a similar situation a few years back and handled it badly, my friend's DC's behaviour was shocking and instead of facing up to the problem I did the judgy thing every time we saw each other. I never told her what I thought but she must have known what my opinion was, I'm not that good a liar to hide it!
Eventually she stopped coming round and we had a few years of very little contact, birthdays and Christmas cards but not much else.

Turns out yes, she does have a permissive parenting style, but actually her child has pretty major special needs which have only recently been fully diagnosed and she could have done with the support instead of me with the judgypants. We're back in contact now and I'm just glad she still classes me as a friend.

Time will tell.

awh go you did all you could. but time heals all wounds and as it goes by things will be better for you and life will go on.

Dont feel guilty, if anything your doing whats best for everyone. the truth hurts but ya gotta be cruel to be kind sometimes!

Awwwww OP - I've just read all of this and I do so feel for you.
I have ditched two friends because of their badly behaved children....and yes it feels shit, I know it does.....but honestly, the carry on you were having couldn't possibly continue.

Well I've just typed a big post and it has gone into the cyber vortex, argh!

The point of which really was (brace yourselves, totally un-AIBU-like talk ahead) -- Thanks, to all who posted on this thread. I sort of had blinders on; a friendship lasting more than a quarter century had me in a bit of a bubble and it was truly helpful to hear other people's views and experiences...and also, the way unbiased people honestly see mine. For those of you who've dealt with this and come out still friends, I am sincerely happy for you. And for those dealing with something similar now, I wish you the best, it absolutely sucks. Anyway, thanks.

For me, it still feels pretty awful that I know I must have hurt her, but relief that it is dealt with and also some relief that I was straight with her, as I found it really difficult to do.

At least there was no huge blow up, so if someday things change, well, at least the door wasn't slammed shut.

gomummy - you have done the right thing. Your "friend" has shown her true colours - she is self-centred to the core and cares about nothing but her way of bringing up her DC, regardless of the impact on anyone else. Am quite that she suggested your (perfectly normal) attitudes to your own child and home were somehow too uptight!!

I am sorry that you feel any guilt for this - in all fairness, you are pretty blameless in this situation as your "friend" seems incapable of accepting any responsibility. Well, she'll soon learn that she is the square peg in this situation when no one wants her DC around because of his lack of boundaries.

oops, xposted because I started my post about an hour ago and then had lunch before I finished it!
I don't know how much you have actually hurt your friend - she seems to be fairly insular about how Right she is and how Wrong you are so I guess she may be more indignant than hurt. But she could have just been lashing out, I suppose (didn't sound like it though)

Anyway - you've done what was right for your family and that is the most important thing. :)

gomummy, I do feel for you, it's clear this friendship was important to you. I have been there, not a 25 year friendship, but long nevertheless. I just found, when the kids came along, it was clear our bond was as single women and wouldn't be strong enough to encompass our new roles as mums too.

I know lots of people who make allowances for friendship issues due to their longevity, and that's great if you can do it. The problem is when it starts to impact on your family, as it did here for you. Your ds was starting to be influenced, negatively, and your dh too, not to mention yourself.

Your friend is free to make her parenting choices and focus on a rule free childhood, but you are just as free to show her that those choices are impacting on you and yours and that there are consequences. She may think she can keep her child free of influence, but you have shown her that, in doing so, she herself is paying the price for those ideals. I think she could well start to cool down and see this from your point of view, and how difficult you must have found the discussion. She must know you well enough to know you took no pleasure atall in being frank about her son.

Maybe her respect for you will naturally grow when she calms down and sees this from your side a little. Time is a healer. Then again, perhaps, as she was so unembarassed at her boys behaviour, she really will think you are over reacting. But, you can't change her, you can only control how you choose to be around her. I do wonder though, about how much you really will miss her, or if it's not the idea of the long time friend you will miss more. I mean, when a friend doesn't get you and your way of life, is it all that enriching?

You didn't fail op, I haven't posted before on this thread but have been watching with interest. She was never going to agree with you to your face, but who knows that now she may have a look at her dc's behaviour in the cold hard light of day and maybe reassess. If that happens I think you have succeeded in helping her and her dc for the future.

Not sure if this has been said as reading quickly while getting ready for work.

I think it would be a shame to completely give up on this friend when you obviously are fond of her and you say she has supported you through big things in the past. I can equally see how aggravating this child must be, so I think you need to make it clear that you are finding it difficult to continue the friendship under the circumstances.

Could you discuss a few ground rules with your friend maybe? That whilst you understand she wants her child to express himself, if he is in your home that does not include physical damage to your property or children. Also that since the child apparently cannot tolerate adults having a conversation, you need to have some 1-2-1 time with your friend so you can actually have a chat and be friends.

Don't know if that's helpful but hope you manage to get it sorted.

Obviously should have read a bit more before posting.

Sorry things didn't work out how you'd hoped.

I am going to ask MN to delete my last post as i may have given a bit too much info on my RL 'friend' and am a bit paranoid she may be a MNer!

So to recap, i wanted to say well done to OP, it must have been so hard for you to do this but you should be proud of yourself.

What i didnt say in my post is that what you have to remember is you are a role model for your own DC, you need him to see that you are there to support him and not be unsupportive if another child is playing up and possibly bullying him.

All the best, you have done the right thing

You might be surprised when she's had time to reject on your comments.

reflect

For me, it still feels pretty awful that I know I must have hurt her, but relief that it is dealt with and also some relief that I was straight with her, as I found it really difficult to do

I think that is natural, but you know it needed doing - and unless you are the only people that can't tolerate her child (unlikely) it will be a reality check for her - you may well see changes there.

You did the right thing, gomummy, hope you feel better soon x

Agree - you did the right thing, gomummy.

I sympathise totally. I've had a very similar situation which came to a head this week, luckily not with a very longstanding friend but with a mum who has a nine year old DD in the same Y5 class as mine. I've helped her out a hell of a lot this year when her partner left, including with lots and lots of childcare and hours and hours listening to her. Her approach to parenting is vastly different from mine and although her DD is very precocious, she is constantly being told how gorgeous and intelligent she is, is never disciplined and feels it is acceptable to jump up and down on my sofas and scream to interrupt adult conversation. I won't tolerate this behaviour and I often ended up telling off her DD in front of her! My friend would laugh at even the most demonic behaviour and seemed to find it amusing.

I found it increasingly stressful spending time with her and this child. My DH and 15 year old DS would cringe when she came round, which at one point was daily. The crunch came last week when I asked her to collect my DS from school as I was going to a funeral and she pretended not have seen my text and calls...hmm. This was despite me looking after her child for whole days in the holidays when she was at work. Her DS and another girl have also been horrible to my DS at school but of course my friend thinks the princess can do no wrong..

Speaking to other friends I realised that both issues show a lack of respect for me and the things I've done and although I'm not normally confrontational we ended up having a row and the friendship is basically over. Of course, it helps that she's not an old friend and I now see that all the effort was on my part not hers. I'm just a bit peeved that I didn't see what a mug I was being earlier.