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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To end a lifelong friendship because of this?

178 replies

gomummygo · 29/09/2011 17:56

Should probably name change but oh well. I have posted about this once before, about a year ago and I've stuck it out until now, BUT...

Lifelong friend, generally nice person, but one of her two DCs is utterly horrible to be around. :( I know, it sounds awful to say. It's well past being a phase, we're talking years now of incredibly obnoxious behaviour. Obnoxious is the exact word but can't begin to describe how extreme it is. Friend says that her DC are "free spirits" and does not try to curb it at all. Her other DC is far better behaved.

My DH does not want to associate with her & her DH at all because of this and I can't blame him. He'd prefer our DS not be around them because of the things that he picks up and we then have to explain why we don't do these things.

A year ago I received advice on here to try to see her without DC. Well, shortly after I posted that she told me about wanting this DC to spend lots more time with me, what a good role model I was, etc., so it made the advice tough to follow! I haven't wanted to give up on a v. long term friendship and I have tried so hard to grit my teeth and bear it but Blush I just cannot stand to be with them anymore!!! It is so frustrating.

We are good enough friends that I have tried to speak to her a couple of times about the behaviours. Problem is that we have completely different parenting philosophies and she really sees a lot of the behaviours as "self expression" that she doesn't want to "quash." I, on the other hand, see it as rude/ill mannered/generally obnoxious.

I really didn't want to lose her friendship over this but I just cannot see how we can continue a friendship when I dread seeing her and now find myself constantly making ridiculous excuses to avoid her, except on rare occasions when I know she will be without said child. She really does have a good heart, she was one of the few friends who stuck around when I made a big (positive for me) life change a few years back.

So if you've gotten this far, AIBU to give up on the friendship? There isn't really much left of it anyway at this point I guess, but I'm :( about it.

Be brutal, I feel like I deserve it for even asking, but between having my house destroyed and listening to an endless stream of incredibly rude drivel, I am at my wits end and genuinely have no idea where to go from here.

OP posts:
squeaver · 29/09/2011 18:40

I think you should have another go at the seeing her on her own thing. Make sure you take the initiative and suggest doing something that could only be adults-only. You might end up getting into the habit of only seeing each other that way [hopeful].

I must say, it does sound odd that one child is like this and the other is fine.

fidelma · 29/09/2011 18:41

Differents styles of parenting cause huge issues.

squeaver · 29/09/2011 18:42

oh sorry, x-post, didn't see that the adults only thing could be difficult. BUT please think about it, as it looks like you really don't want to lose her friendship.

pigletmania · 29/09/2011 18:48

Do you really value her friendship and want to be her friend.If yes, I would just tell her that while her dc is behaving like this you would rather meet with no dc about as her dc is setting a bad example. Don't beat about the bush. She wants her dc to learn off you and your dc, well they are not going to learn anything until she stops with this 'free spirit shit' and starts being a parent, and that means correcting them when they are wrong, and punishing them appropriately.

Icancancatchbabies · 29/09/2011 18:48

I would talk to her first and see if anything changes - at least that gives the friendship a teeny chance.

Original poster
gomummygo · 29/09/2011 18:52

At this point, it's more that I don't want to hurt her, iykwim.

I like the note idea, Trifle, but don't think I can do it as I know her - she'd be more offended that I didn't have the...whatever the right word is...to speak to her face to face.

It is odd squeaver. Not saying the other DC is an angel, but is certainly typical for age and behaves in a more appropriate manner.

OP posts:
pigletmania · 29/09/2011 18:54

Just tell her that you would rather meet with just her as its easier that way. Thats what i do with friends, as my dd has SN and its difficult to talk to friends when she is about, so I wait until she is at school

Original poster
gomummygo · 29/09/2011 18:56

Well that is the thing, Piglet. If I say "...behaving like this...", she will say "Behaving like what?" and a mildly irritated discussion will ensue where I'll be told that her child is just experimenting with X or just expressing X or just experiencing x, etc.

It is time for me to deal with this as I feel so crappy about it.

OP posts:
fluffles · 29/09/2011 18:58

you've got to tell her the truth.. you will hurt her far far more by inexplicably 'dropping' her than you will by speaking out to her.

tell her how you feel and then it's up to her if she meets you without children.. worst case you lose her friendship but then you were facing that anyway.

i think making excuses and dropping somebody without explanation is too cruel.

CheerfulYank · 29/09/2011 18:58

I totally feel your pain! Unfortunately those DC I would like DS not to associate with are his cousins... Hmm

I would just say that you only want to hang out without DC...something like "Oh I never get "grownup time" , I'd really like to just catch up with you."

DamselWithADulcimer · 29/09/2011 18:58

Another vote for being upfront as you have nothing to lose now. But I would never, ever write a letter - anything in writing can be brought out and used as evidence against you for the whole of the rest of eternity.

CheerfulYank · 29/09/2011 19:00

Or you could say that you don't think that the DC mesh well "right now."

I know this all sounds sort of lily-livered, but I'd be the same way. Especially if you've tried before and she explains it all away...

Original poster
gomummygo · 29/09/2011 19:01

It is, fluffles. :( Blush

Thanks Elmo. So frustrated.

OP posts:
fastweb · 29/09/2011 19:04

oh love, you sound so sad, and I immagine feel even worse.

I think some parenting philosphies are far harder to well than others, they require a good fit with both parents and child, and they need a very strong understand of the "tenents" to aviod misinterpretation and sliding into adbidicating parental responsibility.

There is potential silver lining to this, a rejection, perhpas not the first, might lead her go chat on a forum with other parents with similar ideas and they might ferret out what is going wrong and can help her turn it around.

I've seen similar situtions played out on radical unschooling boards and there does seem to be a willingness for the forum not to just assume the rejecter is a big meanie, but actually point out that if this is the result, then the philosophy is ot getting the expected results, so the first place to look is how it is being implemented.

And I'm really sorry you are in this situation love, it has to be really difficult and painful for you.

cat64 · 29/09/2011 19:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Original poster
gomummygo · 29/09/2011 19:06

Ugh Cheerful, tough to deal with that in the family! Wish I could say the DC "don't mesh well right now" type thing, but she and I both know that unfortunately my DS is at the age where he thinks that seeing this behaviour is utterly hilarious! For him it is like a reality-TV of all of the things he is not allowed to do, or hasn't thought to do! That's mostly why my DH gets so frustrated.

OP posts:
bibbitybobbityhat · 29/09/2011 19:06

Can you not stick with the friendship but subtly manoeuvre it so that it is only without children? You can be quite upfront and say "oh we never get to talk properly when the dc are around, lets go out to x wine bar or x cafe on such a such a date in the evening". Seems sad to let the friendship go completely.

Original poster
gomummygo · 29/09/2011 19:11

True, Cat64, I'm avoiding her now, so not really anything to lose in that vein. Just wish there was a way that it didn't have to be hurtful - but can't really see a way to tell the direct truth and have it not hurt here.

I think I shall have to speak to her tomorrow. Ironic how in trying to avoid her DC's poor (imo) behaviour, I am now behaving badly myself by making up excuses and avoiding her. Sorry if I sound a bit horrid on here.

OP posts:
Original poster
gomummygo · 29/09/2011 19:15

Doesn't it, bibbity? DH does not think it is sad at all to lose this lifelong friendship. He thinks her lack of attention to her child's behaviour is disrespectful to us and that I've already done all I owed her by trying more than once to talk to her rationally about it. But he's also quite fed up of explaining to DS why we do not do certain things he picks up.

OP posts:
PastaLaVista · 29/09/2011 19:20

I agree that you have to be honest, but you are not "ending the friendship over her DC's behaviour". You are saying to her that you value her friendship and would like to keep it. For that to happen she needs to understand that you find her DC's behaviour unacceptable and that he cannot be part of the relationship between you, your family and her unless/until the behaviour improves.

She says you are a good role model, so perhaps that might allow her to fess up that she also finds the DC's behaviour to be a nightmare and ask for your advice. Only advice, mind you - not taking on the job of sorting it out on her behalf, nor making concessions to see the child on a promise that she "will really, really try"!

fastweb · 29/09/2011 19:21

Sorry if I sound a bit horrid on here

I don't think you sound horrid at all love.

You've really tired to manage a situation you find exceedingly hard to cope with because you are putting her feelings before your own.

Avoidance to meet comes from not wanting to hurt her, not messing her about cos you couldn't care less.

Those are not the choices of a horrible person.

Nanny0gg · 29/09/2011 19:21

I don't get it.
If you are such a good 'role model' then she must think there are issues with her child's behaviour surely? And she can't think you're that stifling.
If the child misbehaves in your house then you must deal with it if she won't.
Refuse to accept him trashing your house and do not allow him to constantly interrupt. School won't put up with all that for a nano second so he might as well get used to discipline now.If he ignores you then you have to tell her that she has to take him home.
That might kick start the 'conversation'...

swallowedAfly · 29/09/2011 19:23

it's a bit of a cop out but can you shoulder some of the blame onto dh?

you could say i'm sorry x but we're going to have to just catch up when it's just the two of us from now on. my son has been picking up some behaviour from yours that dh is really fed up with and he doesn't want them around each other anymore and to be honest i think that would be best too.

if she keeps questioning something like, we have really different ideas about parenting and behaviour and obviously it's up to you how you do it but i can't cope with it - all the shouting and interupting stresses me out and gives me a headache and to be honest i'm sick of things getting damaged at my house and it is really awkward when your ds is doing something destructive and you don't say anything - i know that's your way but to me it feels really rude and stressful.

i know it will be a nightmare but putting dh in the main firing line and emphasising that you have different styles and beliefs about behaviour etc rather than you're crap i'm great may help.

fwiw it is a nightmare having ill behaved children in your home especially when their parents just sit there and don't address it - very awkward and it makes you feel disrespected by the parent too that they're not bothered about how their child treats your home and possessions. i do sympathise.

Original poster
gomummygo · 29/09/2011 19:34

Thanks Fastweb, that was kind of you to say.

You're right Pasta, I'm assuming that she'll be so hurt/angry that she will end the friendship when I speak to her directly about it this way.

I don't know, Nanny, I really don't get the role model thing tbh! She would be v. offended if I told her to leave though. She just seems oblivious that anyone would find certain things irritating - ie. she just keeps talking right over the howling and ignores it.

Swallowed have you been talking to my DH? He has volunteered to shoulder the blame as you have suggested. I told him I wouldn't do that, that it is my problem and I don't want her firing at him (which she would if I said that). He really wants me to, doesn't mind at all!

OP posts:
warthog · 29/09/2011 19:38

i second the idea about saying that you'd like to see her without the kids because you think your differing parenting styles are getting in the way.

if she pushes you further, i would be honest though because if you get that far there isn't really any going back. you're at the end of your tether as it is.

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