To end a lifelong friendship because of this?

[gomummygo]

Should probably name change but oh well. I have posted about this once before, about a year ago and I've stuck it out until now, BUT...

Lifelong friend, generally nice person, but one of her two DCs is utterly horrible to be around. :( I know, it sounds awful to say. It's well past being a phase, we're talking years now of incredibly obnoxious behaviour. Obnoxious is the exact word but can't begin to describe how extreme it is. Friend says that her DC are "free spirits" and does not try to curb it at all. Her other DC is far better behaved.

My DH does not want to associate with her & her DH at all because of this and I can't blame him. He'd prefer our DS not be around them because of the things that he picks up and we then have to explain why we don't do these things.

A year ago I received advice on here to try to see her without DC. Well, shortly after I posted that she told me about wanting this DC to spend lots more time with me, what a good role model I was, etc., so it made the advice tough to follow! I haven't wanted to give up on a v. long term friendship and I have tried so hard to grit my teeth and bear it but I just cannot stand to be with them anymore!!! It is so frustrating.

We are good enough friends that I have tried to speak to her a couple of times about the behaviours. Problem is that we have completely different parenting philosophies and she really sees a lot of the behaviours as "self expression" that she doesn't want to "quash." I, on the other hand, see it as rude/ill mannered/generally obnoxious.

I really didn't want to lose her friendship over this but I just cannot see how we can continue a friendship when I dread seeing her and now find myself constantly making ridiculous excuses to avoid her, except on rare occasions when I know she will be without said child. She really does have a good heart, she was one of the few friends who stuck around when I made a big (positive for me) life change a few years back.

So if you've gotten this far, AIBU to give up on the friendship? There isn't really much left of it anyway at this point I guess, but I'm :( about it.

Be brutal, I feel like I deserve it for even asking, but between having my house destroyed and listening to an endless stream of incredibly rude drivel, I am at my wits end and genuinely have no idea where to go from here.

What did she do when her DS pulled the curtain rail out of your wall?

What are the 'logistics' of your relationship - ie: do you live near each other? Are you both child-free in the daytime? Do your DHs have to join you all? Where/how do you usually meet up?

There must be some option to meet without the children, I often do this with friends as, regardless of how lovely or otherwise the children are, surely all adults are entitled to child-free friendships.

"give her the opportunity to say something when it's in my home, and then I do say something to the effect of "please don't at our house" - but I am usually ignored."

O.k. This stood out for me.....

She is ignoring your boundaries!!!

Deal with it. Tell her straight up - speak your truth with loving words - how you feel. After all, what kind of friend is she if you cannot be yourself....sounds like you are walking on eggshells around her, and letting her walk over you. Don't be a role model for her son. That's her job. Not your responsibility.

Tell her you like her friendship and only want to get together with her, without the children.

If she doesn't go with your feelings, this is a friendship that has come to the end of the line....
And that's o.k. Not all friendships are for life anyway. People develop and go down different paths.

Good luck with it!

I completely agree with your dh here gomummygo. You have tried to discuss this with her twice, she has essentially dismissed your concerns whilst happy to avail herself of your good role model abilities. Where's the respect for your boundries?

I actually wouldn't stuggle with this as, lifelong or not (and I don't really value friendships based on longevity, people change) , parenting is divisive, seen clearly in these answers by how far people will go to avoid 'upsetting' or being seen to criticise anothers style/results. It's just as fact of life, people choose to parent differently and as a result, get differing results. Why do we need to be so delicate about it all?

i'm with minipie.
so she may get angry if you try and explain. ditto if you try to distance yourself temporarily. you may have the tables turned on you and she may disappear off. if you are at mate over stage - you have nowt to lose and all to gain.

I think you can be friends with different parenting styles.

I don't think you can blame the child for leading yours astray. You need to drum into your dc that it doesn't matter what others are doing they have to follow your rules. Accusing the boy of leading your dc astray is a bit of a let off for your dc imo.

You can't discipline your friends child for her but you can control the effect it has on you. If he is damaging your property for example you can say that if he doesn't behave he will have to leave your home. If you meet up with your friend and he is playing up badly and spoiling it then you can leave. If your friend sees consequences she might be more inclined to tackle the behaviour.

I agree with you SexualHarrassmentPandaPop that you can be friends with different parenting styles, but it's almost like having another thing to worry about rather than a relaxed, enriching friendship. Being on edge, on the lookout for wrecked furniture and the appropriate way to chastise whilst not offending sounds like bloody hard work. That's without drumming into your own dc that they musn't look up to the naughty kid, who gets off with it all.

The only other way that I can see to deal with this, is to explain to her that if they come to visit, they have to stick to the house rules and that if he doesn't, they'll have to go home.
To be honest, if a child had ripped the curtain pole out of the wall at my house, I would have asked the mother to take them away immediately... I'm obviously nowhere near as nice or patient as you, OP!

I had a very similar problem with my best friend of 25 years. I would never in a million years have considered ending our friendship though. I was honest with her and said that as it was clear her DS and my DD didn't get on that I find him too difficult to be around, so perhaps it would be better if we met up on our own. The last straw was when her DS pushed my DD down the stairs.

So that's what we do now, we talk most days as usual and we meet up once a week or so and go for a meal or a drink. I love my friend very much but I don't love her son and I actually see him as a danger to my DD so I won't have him here. I really hope that as time goes on and he gets older that things will change but we'll see. There are always ways round these things, don't lose someone who has been a good friend to you.

If a child ripped a curtain pole off the wall in my house (and a five year old - Christ!) that would prompt a conversation right there and then with the parent. What on earth happened? How did she react to that? You can't brush over ripping out the fixtures and fittings at someone's house being a "freespirit". Being a "free spirit" has always suggested to me a love of tie-dye and bongos, not criminal damage.

quite right georgiemama.

i agree with other posters.

if you are considering just ending the whole friendship then you really have nothing to lose by telling her why... she will either be offended and never talk to you again (so no change than if you just ended the friendship) or she will agree to only see you iwthout kids, or try and do something about her child.

i would just say to her

"X, I find it very hard to be around your ds. He does this, that and the other, he has damaged things in my house and my children are now copying him. This is not something I am willing to do any more. However, I would hate to lose you as a friend and would still like to see you independently of the children"

sooner or later someone is going to say this to her... better it comes from a friend maybe?

georgimama i am guesisng it went something like "oh nooo darling what happened? oh it was just an accident wasn't it? he does so love winding the curtains around himself at home... he's sooo artistic..."

or something along those lines.

Right MerryMagdalene, so if a friend's child pulled down your curtain rail by swinging on it and it wasn't dealt with you'd be totally cool about it?

I'm a bit surprised how many posters have jumped in without really knowing the details. Ok, we've all had experiences of unruly kids and it's a nightmare - it has broken any number of friendships ime. Here's the thing: some people found my parenting far too lax, whereas some thought I was far too uptight. You can't please everybody.

It could be that the problem is not necessarily hers iyswim. So, if you confront her, I would make 'I' statements re 'I find x too difficult to be around and it's making me feel I don't want to see you. But I don't want to lose our friendship, just that x 's behaviour is too challenging for me'

Instead of (words to the effect of) 'your child's behaviour is unacceptable. I can't see you anymore because you don't discipline your child'

'I' messages may sound weak but actually it shows that you are owning your own feelings (sorry about the therapy-speak) and not blaming her for them. You could say that your parenting styles differ too much and it is causing (you!) a lot of stress, to the point that it's putting a strain on your friendship.

I lost some good friends because of 'differences in parenting styles' (ha!) and it is usually a deal-breaker. But she is an old and dear friend, imo it is worth it to go the extra mile to try to reach some kind of resolution, if possible.

springydaffs you don't need to please everyone with your parenting. You just need to raise children who don't pull curtain rails off the wall, or at least apologise when they do.

We don#t know if she did apologise - OP hasn't said what happened afterwards (or did I miss it?).

Dont bother. She knows how you feel. She disagrees, and dont care how this affects you. You have raised it twice already.

Just stop contacting her, and tell her you have plans if she calls. There is no use doing anything else than letting the friendship fizzle out.

I'm willing to bet she didn't. OP?

Merry what a lovely post ........not, you sound like a right charmer yourself

Gomummy i agree you need either talk once more in depth, or end the visits and be truthful as to why, if you value her as a friend though then just try for one last time and make sure you get your point across, good luck, i'll speak to you later x. t a lovely post ........not, you sound like a right charmer yourself

Gomummy i agree you need either talk once more in depth, or end the visits and be truthful as to why, if you value her as a friend though then just try for one last time and make sure you get your point across, good luck, i'll speak to you later x.

Bloomin phone

Why can't you discipline the child when you're with them. Suggest that you find it far too irritating and having a negative impact on your dc. Therefore saying no you cannot swing off the chandelier, sit on the table etc is completely acceptable. I think they'll thank you for it and everyone will be much happier.

But agree with earlier posts that trying to see her without the children is a great idea. Get into the habit of going to a spa, swim, cinema or bar or something together. It would be a real shame to lose the friendship.

I agree with Imperial
You owe it to her to speak to her about it.
ACtually say, I am on the verge of cutting ties with you because of this.
Give her a chance to at least either deal with her DC, or makes plans to see you when she doesn't have him around.
Seems like such a shame, but I do see your point.

Fuck a duck just lost a really long post.

Basically I have been where you are and had to bite the bullet and tell friends DD2 what wasn't acceptable, friend made all kinds of excuses - tired etc, got peed off but basically she realsied it was lose a great long term friendship or stop her DD2 trashing my house, being rude and on one ocassion spitting in my DS face whilst she 'ignored the behaviour' because that's best.

Can I ask if there is signs of this distruction at her house? drawing on walls, stickers on everything and curtain poles come down? Does she tend to make elaborate stories up about what happened? I found by saying 'really? blimey I would of thought it happened in X way' and soon friend realised her stories were way too OTT to be believable.

FWIW things are not perfect now but as her DD2 has got older, and is now in the year of school she teaches, (not her school but same age as her pupils) she has started to stop the behaviours and things are getting better. She also tolerates me 'disaplining' her DD2. It's usually things like 'DS has asked you not to stick stickers on his wardrobe/toy boxes/ bed etc and has given you paper, now use the paper or I'll take the stickers away'. Oh and at her house I do not disapline DS for undesirable behaviours her children get away with, they would tell tale on him all the time - for things they too would do, but I made it clear that although 'wrong' if it was allowed for them at her/their house it was allowed for DS - her house her rules.

Things are better and visits are far more enjoyable

YANBU.

For goodness sake, you need to pull yourself together a bit OP!

Your choices are either tell her you don't want to spend time with her children, or end the friendship. Surely you'd try going down the route of telling her you don't want to be around her kids before you dump her?

Just tell her straight - "look, we have different parenting styles and I find it stressful being together with all the children. In future lets meet up adults only".