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AIBU?

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Original poster

To punish DS who is only 4.5?

176 replies

andypandydulterdandy · 20/09/2011 09:56

Ds has just started primary school, he loves it and is getting on well. He really is a lovely well behaved boy and I rarely have to tell him off, he is kind and affectionate and gets on well with his teachers and his peers.
The problem is, every day when I pick him up from school he has this small plastic toy (like a toy solider), worth nothing really, but he keeps asking can he bring it home, I have told him, "no because that does not belong to you, it belongs to the school"
Yesterday when I checked his lunch box I found the toy inside, I called him and asked him how he got there to which he replied " I don?t know, it must have got in by itself". Eventually he admitted to putting it in his lunch box because he wanted it. I explained that was stealing, which he knew full well that it was, and I told him I was also cross at him for lying to me.
He went to bed with no story last night and I took one of his Ben Ten figures off him and he won?t get it back for a week. Is this too severe? He is really sorry and we took the toy back to school today and he keeps on saying he is will be a good boy and never do it again.

Am I not giving enough, or too much punishment? I really want him to understand that stealing, no matter how small the object and lying are very wrong.

OP posts:
QuickLookBusy · 21/09/2011 13:09

A 4 year old taking something from a shop would not be classed as stealing. Children in England cannot be prosecuted for anything if they are under 10 years old.

pigletmania · 21/09/2011 13:34

No quick but the parents will be responsible, that is why you want to teach kids the right way from an early age.

Insomnia11 · 21/09/2011 13:37

I think the punishment was appropriate. Toy confiscated for stealing and no story for lying about it.

Marjoriew · 21/09/2011 15:44

Did he get his story, OP? I was thinking about him last nightSmile:

GetAwayFromHerYouBitch · 21/09/2011 16:31

Taking from a shop and taking from school are 2 different things in a child's mind, I suspect, which is why you need to guide them.

At school, the object is something he has been playing with, has not had to pay for and therefore is confused about whether it belongs to him or not.

InPraiseOfBacchus · 21/09/2011 16:58

At that age, being caught out by my mum would have been enough punishment for me :(. IMO he's too young for 'prolonged' punishment. Even if he's reminded, he won't properly make the link between the punishment and the crime, so it will all be for nothing.

spiderpig8 · 21/09/2011 17:09

have all of you read the OP? he has asked to take it home many times and the Op has explaine, 'No,it belongs to the school'. To say all 4 yr old go through a period of stealing is not true.None of my 4 have, neither have any of my nephews and neices and I can only think of one child of a friend.
A 4.5 yr old understands the concept of ownership and theft.

NestaFiesta · 21/09/2011 18:48

Agree with spider pig. The DC told her son several times not to take it, but he still did and then told a fib to cover it up. The OP is nipping pilfering and fibbing in the bud. Sounds like she already had the "chat" about not taking stuff. It didn't work so now he has consequences. I think it's fine.

A 4.5 yo is not too young to be punished. Even in reception my 4yo had a "sad" chair for naughty behaviour and a traffic system for good, bad and very bad behaviour.

pigletmania · 21/09/2011 19:13

I agree spider, whether it's from school shop whatever, it's still taking without asking. The boy is nearly 5 not 14 months old. He knew he was not supposed to take it as his mum told him so many times, he took it and lied to his mum, so he knew he had dine wrong. This 4 year old was very aware of what he was doing, and needed to be corrected and apologise to the teacher for taking school property. Geese some people are so soft to let it go.
No way he has to learn

ChristinedePizan · 21/09/2011 19:40

My DS fibbed and took things home after I had told him not to. After a few times of returning stuff to the teacher, he stopped.

Children of this age do not understand the concept of theft. With a bit of explanation, they get that they shouldn't take stuff that isn't theirs but they don't need to be punished because they don't really realise that's being naughty.

I employ a sliding scale of punishment and to go from 'don't do that' to losing a toy for a week and no bedtime story seems less like an escalation and more of a giant leap. I suppose my concern is what on earth you do if they do something really bad?

HipHopOpotomus · 21/09/2011 19:45

YANBU

NestaFiesta · 21/09/2011 20:47

Christine- I disagree- a four year old DOES know what naughty is. If a 4.5 yo doesn't know what naughty is when he 6 months off being 5yo then God help us.

I think OP was right. Sanctions, consequences etc are right, she didn't leave him in a dungeon for goodness sake.

quirrelquarrel · 21/09/2011 21:41

He's 4.5 for heaven's sake, and when will he get his first punishment, with that sort of reasoning? When he's fully grown and towering over you? He says he'll never do it again, then he does. Obviously it doesn't mean much to him, so you don't have to feel guilty about ignoring that.

pinkyp · 21/09/2011 21:45

yanbu - its strict yes but its a good thing as he wont do it again. :)

thecaptaincrocfamily · 21/09/2011 21:50

Sorry but four year olds do understand right from wrong in the sense that they understand they shouldn't take other peoples things................that is if they have been taught Hmm. If they are left unsupervised and don't get caught then how are they to know its wrong ........but thats another thread Smile

quirrelquarrel · 21/09/2011 22:22

Taking a toy from him isn't strict, it's soft.

chillikate · 21/09/2011 22:29

DS stole a toy from nursery when he was 3. Me telling him to tell the teachers and apologise was more than enough punishment and really drilled it home.

spiderpig8 · 22/09/2011 09:10

big difference between 3 and 4.5 though chilikate
Honestly, this thread has really made me feel for reception teachers who suddenly get landed with 30 kids who don't know right from wrong and have no boundaries because their parents think that at 4&5 yrs old they are too young!

ChristinedePizan · 22/09/2011 09:41

Nesta - that isn't what I said. I said children that age don't understand stealing as a concept, not that they don't know what naughty is. That's a totally different thing.

DS is not remotely hard work and is eager to please. But I think it is a real struggle for children to see things that they want and understand that they can't have them so explaining that and telling them that you know that it's hard is a much better way of dealing with it IMO.

I am of the How to Listen so Kids will Talk school of parenting though which obviously not everyone subscribes to :)

NestaFiesta · 22/09/2011 11:24

Christine, when you said "they don't need to be punished because they don't really realise that's being naughty. " It did sound like you were saying they don't understand "naughty", but I see what you're trying to explain.

In any case, you can tell them the difference between naughty and good, not wait for them to learn by osmosis in their own sweet time.

However, the OP HAD explained to the DC NOT to take it and that it belonged to the school. He had STILL taken it and LIED. So he did know it was wrong as he had been told not to and this had been explained to him.

You can explain to a 4.5 that stealing is wrong, they are completely capable of understanding it.

spiderpig is right- it's not the teacher's job to teach kids right and wrong- how much later are parents going to leave it?

ChristinedePizan · 22/09/2011 12:06

I am aware you can explain but sometimes the overwhelming desire to have whatever is the desired object can overtake. As I said in my previous post.

There aren't just two options here you know. The choice isn't between leaving parenting to teachers and punishing a child for what is pretty normal behaviour. I favour a middle way.

spiderpig8 · 22/09/2011 12:37

No, the behaviour is not normal.It became normal in your DS (you say he has stolen on several occasions) because there were no conequences.

It is just SO weak to say his desire is so overwhelming he is not to blame.
Are you going to say that in 10/15 years when he sees a car he likes the look of? or a woman he likes the look of?
Self control has to begin at a very early age .Tests have shown that the self control exhibited by a 3/4 yo is the most reliable predictor of their future success in life

NestaFiesta · 22/09/2011 12:38

But it's my job as a parent to ensure that my son doesn't give in to overwhelming desires when it's not socially acceptable to do so. It's not too early to teach them they can't have everything they want.

The OP's DC took something AFTER being repeatedly told he was not to do so. That is not "pretty normal behaviour" it's going against instructions and then fibbing about it.

It's normal to want stuff, but a parent's job to teach that we can't have everything we want.

RumourOfAHurricane · 22/09/2011 12:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

ChristinedePizan · 22/09/2011 12:47

My DS is not going to turn into a car thief :o He took a domino, a bead, and a car home from preschool. I made him give them back and apologise to his key carer. So there were consequences. I also explained to him why he mustn't take things that don't belong to him.

Can you link to these tests please? Because his pre-school assured me it's perfectly normal behaviour in a three to four year old as they have not yet developed a conscience and struggle with impulse control, not an early predictor of a life of crime. His key carer has an MA in child development so I've always assumed she knows what she's talking about. I'd be interested to show her your evidence that she's wrong.

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