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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to suddenly abandon long held principles because I can?

167 replies

Cathycomehome · 20/09/2011 00:34

My child is already being let down by his outstanding secondary school. He passed the entrance exams to two selective schools this year (with low scores for a pass ; he is not brain of Britain). The local secondary school have ignored his statement and his IEP recomendations AGAIN.

His teacher assessment levels have been ignored.

I had a very constructive meeting with the Head and Head of KS3 today, but still feel disquieted (if that's a word). Never thought I'd consider private schooling - am doing so since my parents will pay. Feels ideologically wrong. Help?

PS my son's special need requires medication, but he does not have learning difficulties.

OP posts:
JockTamsonsBairns · 20/09/2011 22:08

Begony - I'm in the position where I could afford to privately educate. However, I would never consider it, not for a moment. My eldest goes to the local state secondary which is averagely performing. Yes, I'm a socialist and yes, my principles would prevent me from buying her an advantage. I don't buy this argument that 'people would pay privately if they could, and if they say they're against private education it's only because they can't afford it' etc. I believe that a good, solid education is the right of all children, and that it should be state provided. This is clearly not the case, but I'm not about to jump ship just because I can.

Whatmeworry · 20/09/2011 22:24

Childs best outcome trumps ideological principles every time IMO

Malcontentinthemiddle · 20/09/2011 22:26

Depends what you think child's best outcome is. For me, it would never be private school.

notevenamousie · 20/09/2011 22:37

As malcontent said, maybe we'll have to agree to disagree on best outcome. No way for me.

HappySeven I had an academic scholarship (though never even practised an exam paper, my parents didn't go that far!) got straight A*s at GCSE and 4 and a half As at A level so academically it was good. First at university (not oxbridge, my choice, did no way want any more excessive elitism!). Or maybe I was good enough to have done well anywhere. I can never know. I am grateful for the opportunities it gave me. I could tell the privately educated people at university though - without them needing to say. So I'm afraid I think the sense of entitlement is commonplace as is the arrogance that I find scary because so many people don't think they have it. A lack of insight, into themselves, and a lack of empathy, for how the rest of the world lives. Present company excepted, of course, but I don't think that's too sweeping a generalisation (and of course there are exceptions to the rule).

Malcontentinthemiddle · 20/09/2011 22:43

I don't see how you can actually understand how the world is, if you think that being a bit poor means driving a rather older car so you can afford the school fees. That's not real life. And for it to be a priority for me that my child does not grow up thinking that's what being poor means is as valid as it being a priority that she has, I dunno, wraparound care, or lessons in Mandarin, or the astounding sense of confidence that being set apart and above 97% of the population going to private school gives a child.

waits for someone to tell me that's not the case because private school kids might encounter state school kids in their normal lives at middle class out of school activities sanctioned by their parents

TheFallenMadonna · 20/09/2011 22:45

Probably not principles as such then really.

begonyabampot · 20/09/2011 23:00

Jock, thanks for your reply thought I do think many people would consider it if they could easily afford it.

My husband is talking about private schooling for our children once they hit secondary, I'm not sure what's best as i think a relatively good state school would be fine - but then I wonder if I'm holding them back and denying them a better opportunity, a 'nicer' experience. Not looking forward to the discussion on it with my husband as time rolls on.

mnistooaddictive · 20/09/2011 23:08

I also heard the evidence that privately educated do less well at uni. There was a panorama (or similar) about 5 years ago exiting why some parents choose private education and if it isworthwhile. they said private do less than half a grade better at alevel and worse at degree. Lots if other common reasons such as better teaching were also shown to be untrue. The conclusion was that in the majority or circumstances, the only reason to pay is for who your child sits next to.

Longtime · 21/09/2011 08:23

That article mentions the report about privately educated do less well at uni.

However, the flaw I see in that is that they are obviously comparing students on the same courses. Isn't it more difficult for state-educated students to get onto the better courses in the first place? Hence those that do manage it have had to work harder to get there and therefore will continue this work ethic into university.

OpinionatedMum · 21/09/2011 08:26

Too many kids get a shit education in this country. Your standard of education is completely dependent on class and money. Wrong, but not your fault the system stinks. Do what is best for your kid.

You will improve his education by going private but you won't improve anyone elses using the state school.

wordfactory · 21/09/2011 08:29

I think there are many arguments for not sending DC to private school, but the suggestion that privately schooled pupils have worse outcomes generally has got to be the least pursuasive.

OpinionatedMum · 21/09/2011 08:42

They have better outcomes.

Just look at the disproportionate number of privately educated MP's there are. You will find the same for all the top jobs in the country.

Whatmeworry · 21/09/2011 08:44

Probably not principles as such then really

Or possibly that the principle of doing the best for your kids outweighs any other principles you have?

purits · 21/09/2011 09:06

"Socially, private schools can be grim. My DD was at 6th form college (state) with peers who had been educated in very posh, well-known and expensive private schools. They hated everything about the culture of these schools and flourished in the crappy old state system."

What a load of rubbish. Pupils enter at Year 7. Some love it , some hate it. Those that love it stay for sixth form. Those that don't, go elsewhere. By definition, your DD met the ones that hated their particular private school and didn't stay on.

Our very sucessful State school has some pupils who don't like the culture and jump ship for sixth form. On that basis, shall I diss all State schools?Hmm

Very poor debating skills. B- See me after class.

rycooler · 21/09/2011 09:27

malcon; The people who run this country have been to public school and the top universities - very few ( if any ) have been through the state education system - they're the ones telling the rest of us what to do - even though 'they don't understand 'how the world is' -

BelleDameSansMerci · 21/09/2011 09:28

Whatmeworry I think I've been in some disagreement with you on other threads (doubt you've noticed me though) but on this one I am agreeing with everything you post.

Malcontentinthemiddle · 21/09/2011 09:30

I know, Rycooler! Such as Michael Fucking Gove, for example Angry

Whatmeworry · 21/09/2011 09:30

Whatmeworry I think I've been in some disagreement with you on other threads (doubt you've noticed me though)

With a name like that its hard not to notice you! Btw I shall defend to the death your right to disagree with me vehemently :)

snazaroo · 21/09/2011 10:15

"So I'm afraid I think the sense of entitlement is commonplace as is the arrogance that I find scary because so many people don't think they have it. A lack of insight, into themselves, and a lack of empathy, for how the rest of the world lives. "

loving the assumption on this thread that all state school kids end up humble and empathetic, full of insight and understanding Hmm

Hullygully · 21/09/2011 10:29

Wot I have noticed...

Is that the parents make more difference than the school, "arrogance" and "entitled" wise.

At my dc's private prep school there were loads of different kids, some very rich, some with two parents working 24 hour shifts, some with grandparents helping out etc etc. The main difference was that most of the kids had good self-esteem and confidence, but some were also arrogant little shits - and those ones were the ones with the... arrogant big shit parents.

At their secondary, state, school, exactly the same thing holds true.

So I don't think it's the school breeding arrogance and entitlement.

L

Whatmeworry · 21/09/2011 11:05

Wot I have noticed...Is that the parents make more difference than the school, "arrogance" and "entitled" wise

I also understand there is also quite a lot of research that say its the home environment that makes 90% of the difference to kids' outcomes.

(But I suspect that also implies those home environments wouldn't put up with crap schooling)

Hullygully · 21/09/2011 11:12

research-besmearch

my noticings are far more valuable

Malcontentinthemiddle · 21/09/2011 11:12

It's all part of a continuum, isn't it?

I do agree that the least persuasive reason not to go private is because your child will do less well at degree level, but I do also think those figures are interesting. Is it that the private school kids have had enough of pushing by university, or that they can't function as well without it, or that only the best state school kids get there, or that the private school ones are a bit lazy and entitled and don't think they need work as hard, or that the figures are skewed by the 'arch. and anth.' types who aren't there to work anyway? I dunno. Interesting.

The poshest lad (OE, I think) I ever taught at university was a right slacker - sorry I didn't bring my essay, the footnotes weren't right so I thought I'd better give you it another time (yeah right) - sorry I missed the introductory meeting/was late/absent..... lots of charm and fulsome apologies, but when you tried to explain what wasn't right about an essay, he just looked politely incredulous!

However that is of course utterly meaningless as an anecdote, because I've taught plenty of lazy state schoolers too Wink.