AIBU to suddenly abandon long held principles because I can?

[Cathycomehome]

My child is already being let down by his outstanding secondary school. He passed the entrance exams to two selective schools this year (with low scores for a pass ; he is not brain of Britain). The local secondary school have ignored his statement and his IEP recomendations AGAIN.

His teacher assessment levels have been ignored.

I had a very constructive meeting with the Head and Head of KS3 today, but still feel disquieted (if that's a word). Never thought I'd consider private schooling - am doing so since my parents will pay. Feels ideologically wrong. Help?

PS my son's special need requires medication, but he does not have learning difficulties.

The important thing with 'principles', I think, is to remember that they are your own and not those of anyone who might be affected by them.
Absolutely give the child the best possible chance that you can in life. Plenty of time later for pondering the principles.

nightie 'Plenty of time later for pondering the principles' well said!
happyseven Glad someone else sees it from a 'neutral' stance! Also agree on the fees subject, they vary an enormous amount and there are bursaries available...
As mentioned good and bad in both sectors....

How rude Bakelite, my achievements are very much my own, we were certainly not spoon fed. Unless 6 day school weeks and 4 hrs min homework a night from age 7 counts....

Talk about crass generalisations.

There seems to be this idea that principles can only ever be an irritant to you - like they get in the way of you wanting to do stuff and it's better not to have them (or at least put them in inverted commas!)

To me it's not like that - if I think something is wrong, then on principle I am not in favour of it, and therefore I wouldn't want to do it. OP you sound as though you do want to do it (do come back and say more though!), so therefore you don't have that principle any more and it needn't worry you. If your principles were against it, you just wouldn't. Like Nestle, range rover sports and the Daily Mail, I want nothing to do with private education because I don't think they should exist. If you do, that is obviously your prerogative.

Doubtless you will find - as this thread suggests - lots of people who will vindicate your decision and reassure you that you're not a bad person for doing this. And those who would not support your decision, or endorse it, also probably don't think you're a bad person. In the main. There will be lots and lots of people on MN and at the private school who will tell you you have to put your own first, and so on and so forth. If you will find that reassuring enough to make you feel you did the right thing, then that's up to you. It is of course your right to use private schools if you wish.

What you cannot have though is the whole-hearted endorsement of people who genuinely are ideologically opposed to private schooling, and whose principles would not lead them to make this decision. Those people also have a right to their opinion, and you can't expect that they too will tell you 'yes it's fine to change your mind and use private schools, hell, I'd do it too'. I suspect sometimes people won't be happy until everyone concedes that they did the right thing going private, and that in their position, we'd all have done the same.

Not all of us would, and that doesn't make us crap parents, or mean we are 'sacrificing our children on an altar of political correctness'. It just means we have different principles from you.

As the saying goes, you can have what you want most in life: you can't have what you want second and third. So you can have your kid in private school - you just can't get everyone to agree it was the right thing to do. But lots will agree, to be fair, so it's just a question of how much that matters to you.

From the other perspective...
My very openly socialist parents abandoned their principles and sent me to a private secondary school. I never fit in, it led to massive questioning about myself and who I was, and my self esteem is slowly recovering now (am 30). The thing is, your children will (hopefully) have spent years learning your belief that all people are of equal worth, the greatest good for the greatest number etc, and then you send them somewhere that is built on this sense of money and entitlement and they who shout the loudest get the most... and the inner turmoil can be devestating.
That was my experience anyway. I will not be doing that with my (so far very bright) DD. Even if her results are lower. Even if her university choice is limited. Her sense of self is far too important.

Thats a very interesting view point mousie I had the opposite where my very 'socialist' Father sent me to an absolutely awful state school as I should be 'lucky I am getting an education at all as I had to leave at 15' etc, hated every minute and was a low achiever...
Maybe it is the way of life to do the 'opposite' of your parents, ponders that my grandchildren will not go to private school

My parents sent me to the state school up the road and it was shit. I sent my daughter to the state school up the road and it's great. Of course, there was a change of government in between....

Ninky but there is a school of thought that says 6 day weeks and 4 hours homework is spoon feeding. Or spoon cramming. Either way, it's not teaching children to learn for its own sake, it's cramming knowledge in to get exam passes, which then doesn't work when you get to Uni and have to free-learn. (I'm sure that's not the right phrase, but I didn't go )

Never mind all that high falutin stuff, Mal.

Get the dirt on the teas.

Maybe not something you should shout about LeQueen.

Oh I don't know, I just felt lucky to have learnt in a fab environment with fab teachers who instilled determination, love of knowledge and an enquiring mind, all of which served me well at university and subsequent learning.

As a (not working at present teacher) in state schools I see far more spoon feeding there. Did you know in some schools children don't have to read the texts they write about in Eng Lit? They get given a booklet with relevant chapters for the question and a list of useful quotations. Some teachers even give a list of what goes in which paragraph, complete with suggested connectives to join it all together. That sort of thing was unheard of when I was at school, but apparently is the norm now. That sounds much more like spoon feeding to me than any of the challenging yet really quite inspiring teaching I had!

Obviously not all schools and children are the same though.

It seems a little unfair to dismiss a whole sector of education of which you have no experience based solely on prejudice Wilson. If your school of thought were true there would be very few successful private school leavers, which patently isn't the case!

wilson there is no evidence that independently schooled students perform badly at university or that their performance prevents them from taking up successful careers. Quite the reverse.

The evidence shows that state educated students, in particular those from grammar schools, perform slightly better.

Mousie, it sounds like you weren't sent to a good school. As I've already admitted I was sent to a private school on an assisted place and I never was led to believe that it was about money or entitlement. I did leave thinking that no doors were shut to me but I think that's a good thing as a woman (I find it sad that all the women in my workplace (science-based) went to private school. I don't think we're all brilliant scientists but we all thought we were able to do it).

There were cliques of wealthy girls who turned up their noses at us lesser mortals but I think they exist in any school. If it weren't money-based it would at least be fashion-based.

I don't think I was spoon-fed or I wouldn't have made it through my degree or masters but I do agree that children that do well in the state system often go on to brilliant things. Maybe they are taught to be driven?

BakeliteBelle, is it really true that state school kids do better at Uni? If their A level results aren't as good in the first place, surely they won't be doing the same courses at the same universities as they would had they got better A level grades so it's difficult to compare. (I'm not saying that a child will always get better grades going to a private school but there's a good chance they will.)

A friend of mine's parents paid for his two ds's to go to a private school. His ds1 got top grades at A level and studied to be a vet He got a 1st so didn't do badly at all and is now successfully employed as a vet. He wouldn't have got in as a vet had he not got those top grades and he may not have got those top grades at a state school. Another friend of mine's son went to the local comprehensive and then on to UCL. He got a first but he was the only one who was not privately educated.

Curious, if money was no issue and no sacrifices were to be made - would posters send their kids to private schools, especially if the state alternative wasn't that great? Most people can't afford it, how many would change their minds and go the private route if they could?

Not I

I'm not dismissing anything... what I want is for state schooling to be so good that private education becomes obsolete, but I can see the naievity in that statement even as I type it, so need to call me on it!

I was agreeing with Bakelite's point though that less able pupils can be taught to pass exams through sheer force of resources, and that these pupils will then get university places and potentially struggle. If you look at the exam pass rates of private schooling - you can't just assume that there are no pupils with lesser ability in there. Its the cramming, the six day weeks and the four hours of homework that get those children through their exams, and I would imagine they don't have a particularly good time doing it either.

I am totally with you on improving state ed, it isn't naievity just idealism which the world needs!

I wouldn't

(But trust me, much of the spoon feeding I saw in state schools helped fail grade pupils get Cs and above so it happens everywhere!)

I would - but only if I couldn't get my children into decent state schools. There's no way my kids would go to a crap school just to satisfy some misplaced principle.

I believe if a place is good enough for you to live in, it's good enough for your kids to go to school in. There are places I'd rather not live in, though schools aren't the only reason why - but if I did get teleported to Orchard Park or Bransholme (Hull) for example, I think sending them private would only make things worse. Although of course all those people on Bransholme could send them private, if they'd only drive older cars and stop going on skiing holidays.

Oh and hully, dd is playing on Thursday but only against 2 state schools - which she's relieved about because it means they don't get sneered at for their non-swanky kit and for losing. So I'll still be none the wiser about the teas....