to ask how many mums out there can actually afford to go to work?

[tinky19]

Ok, so I'll start by saying I'll win all prizes for ignorance with this but please bear with me.
DS is 16mo and DC2 is due in Dec. Now, up until my maternity leave starts we have been very fortunate to have GPs looking after DS so I have worked 3 days a week.
DH has now got a new job so we are moving 250 mile away from all family and having looked into child care, I've realised we can't afford for me to work. It's not like I have a badly paid job (I'm a teacher) but at most after paying childcare I'd have £100 a month left from my pay.
Now I know some mums would choose to work anyway but unless I'm really makibng an extra contribution, I'd rather be at home with me children.
So how do people afford it? Are you all high powered, high earners? This is a genuine question and I'm not critising anybodies choice to be a working mum or SAHM.
Thanks

Agree with this:

Quenelle Wed 14-Sep-11 16:14:13

Many people are posting because experience has taught them that it's a decision that has to be based on the long term. That is something I didn't realise when I had DS. I thought it was a simple sum: salary - childcare = is it worth doing? But it's not.

Tbh you've had it easy with using your parents for free childcare up to now, and are just having to accept the reality of life for many working parents.

That reminds me of my SIL! Had free childcare for 9 years so far and goes on about how lazy other parents are (particularly single mums for some reason ) by not going out to work. I point out that a lot of people not only can't afford to pay childcare but would actually get into a lot of debt very quickly by paying for it, even if they were working full time, but she doesn't get it . . . too thick I assume. She also goes on about how she's worked so hard for everything she's got, failing to remember that she got it because of the free childcare, which just makes her seem like an ungrateful cow which I suspect she is.

That's not a dig at you OP or anyone else, just my head up her arse fecking SIL!

SIL rant over. Sorry about that!

I'm always really of anyone who's had free childcare. Of course it makes a HUGE difference! I've never had it so working has always been expensive in childcare terms (but financially worth it but we both earn well).

When dc little I did evening and weekend work. i took home around £650 a month doing care work. Now dc at school I'm lucky to have found a job 9.30 to 2.30. I get paid around £12K for this. So pay childcare only in holidays, for half days. I gave up my big career job and took a lot of steps down really. I still can't envisage me doing the career job 7am to 7pm so I guess it was the right decision for me. Although i do miss my life there.

I would love to have the financial benefits of free childcare www- but you only have to read MN to see that mixing family and childcare often comes at an emotional price . Many mums seem to have issues with grandparents who provide free care but don't do things the 'right ' way! Personally I feel grandparents should be allowed to just be grandparents anyway . Childcare is a big responsibility- and they've already done their bit.

I know childcare is a big cost, but when you give it the importance it deserves, it actually seems very reasonable. People spend masses on their homes, holidays, etc- why not invest in the peace of mind of proper quality care?

Depends what you mean by afford. When my dds were little I worked part time and was left with about £100 in my hand. To me, that meant I could afford it. I made a little bit of cash and I kept up my work experience. That can be pretty valuable.

If you have the choice you are lucky. I didn't - I earn significantly more than DH and therefore in order to pay the mortgage it was always going to be the case that I would definitely be going back.

tinky, aside from the qn over the cost/benefit of working, have you seriously considered the alternative of your DH working away from home Mon-Fri, and you staying close to your friends and family?

I'm not sure that the stress of moving away from everyone you know, having another baby, and giving up your career at the same time is realistically doable without something snapping somewhere. Worse case scenario is that your DH hates his new job, which would leave you royally stuffed.

If it were me I would seriously consider doing it all in stages.

true donthateme re the emotional cost of free childcare.

Hi OP
I am in exactly the same position as you
I am Main Scale Teacher outer london on M6, I have 2 kids one at pre school with wrap around and one with childminder
monthly cost for both is about £1200 for 3 days a week, which leaves me with £100 a month after paying for Diesel to get to work and back I barely earn a thing. But its only until next sept, then dd1 will start school full time.
My Head teacher pointed this out to me during a meeting as his wife had been in the same position earlier.
I look at it as an investment as I love my school and doubt I would get a part time role in another school if I took time off. But if I was working in a not so nice school I wouldnt do it.
good luck with your decision and I hope everything works out for you!

Agree with cactus and others who have pointed out that the OP's financial argument does not stack up. Short-term thinking.

If you're a primary teacher, after a gap of, say, five years, it could well be hard to find another job, especially given that you will be more expensive than NQTs, more people become teachers in a recession etc. You may find it particularly hard to find a part-time role.

Unless you decide to and manage to return to teaching, you will need to get a different job (probably for much less money, at least initially), retrain (which costs money), make money here and there from tutoring, small business etc, or rely on your DH's income long-term (which is risky in many, many ways). And you will have had a big break in pension contributions. And (if you go to a job other than teaching) you may have to work the holidays, whereas if teaching you could have the holidays and associated reduced childcare costs.

I am in a similar situation (though not a teacher) and would love to stay at home for several years, but would never, eve quit work - especially good-quality, reasonably well-paid, part-time work - because it is too damn risky for me and the whole family.

I'm not working at the moment as we emigrated, but when I was working, it was full-time from the end of maternity leave, so DS was 1. I couldn't get my head around him being in a nursery from 8-6 5 days a week - it just seemed utterly wrong to me (no reflection on anyone else's choices) so we looked into different options.

The cost was also a factor, although not a hindrance - my salary was more than double the costs of full-time nursery care.

In the end, we got a live-in Mother's Help. Her wage, for the same hours as the nursery was roughly half, although obviously we provided accommodation and food on top, and she had no bills.

Obviously the only (not so minor) consideration here is that you have enough room in your house. If you do, it's a massively cost-effective way to get childcare.

We were also exceptionally lucky as our MH was second to none and became one of the family. It was the best decision we ever made.

Just providing my story so that you can maybe think about other options instead of just the default, i.e. nursery...

I am looking for something part time in January (the soonest there is childcare available), I expect we will only break even until DS2 starts school.

My childcare bill will be about AUD$150 per day for the two of them. I should make more than that but with all the extra costs I can't see it actually adding anything to the pot. But we are lucky enough that that doesn't matter.

I work full-time and yes I can afford childcare. We are lucky that we have my Mother and MIL to look after our baby and we also have a nanny. However, both sets of GPs are on holiday at the moment so we have the nanny full-time and it is a fair chunk of change per week. But we are lucky that we are both high income earners. That said, I would always work because I think it is important to keep your career moving so when the children go to school, you will still have your job. And then childcare costs will be much less. As a teacher, you will also enjoy the school holidays etc which will be great for when the children are at school level.

It depends what you teach. In the UK at the moment it is nigh on impossible to find a job in primary teaching. I am secondary humanities and very glad that I always worked, even when childcare ate up all my income, because it would probably have been pretty hard to get back into a good job in a good school. Some subjects like physics and maths have historically been shortage subjects but even with those, my school is getting more applicants per job than ever before. Teaching has become a far more attractive career since the recession started to bite. Personally if I were a primary teacher, no way would I give up my job- it would feel like madness, even if in 'the short term I was working for nothing

But it really isn't an issue just for mums.

That makes an assumption about the roles of mums and dads. It's about whether two parents choose that both of them will work.

I find it so hard to get my head around the fact that society still looks upon women who work in this way ...or the issue of women working/not working in this way.

In my family it's an issue of one of us needing to be a sahp to care for our
child (due in Jan). So we have discussed if and come up with a plan between us with no assumptions about who that will be.

I agree with you.

I think its funny that a lot of posters who have said "yes work" or have made it work themselves have either granparents helping out or a better paying job!!!

I am also a secondary teacher with a second child on the way and have recently moved area. I think its different if you are in a job you want to keep at a good school but there really is no point that I can see in applying for jobs to have the stress of teaching for £100! I loved my last job and would like to go back into teaching but I can't see its worth it at the moment.

I am just as employable now as I'm likely to be in 2-3 years time. In fact I did another degree while my first was small and we moved initially so I am now able to offer another subject (secondary).

I would quite like to work part time but I'm not to put my children into childcare and have the stress of teaching for that little gain. IF working enabled me to have a nanny and/or cleaner etc then that would be very different. As it is £100 wouldn't cover the expenses of running a second car so we really would be out of pocket. Not working I do have my children 24/7 but they do get the continuity of care/ my parenting etc :)

We are struggling quite a bit on one low-ish income and I would love for me going out to work to help solve it but I'd have to be earning more than a teacher to help out, it does seem nuts. You either have to be earning very little / single parent to get child care help (and fair enough) or really quite a lot to make it worth it in my mind.

I agree with hairy and others, there is an assumption it is the mum that can't afford to go back to work, but a lot of mums I know are the main breadwinner (as I am) so for us if the question came up it would be DH that would have to consider being a SAHP or not. We are fortunate in having GPs provising free childcare 2 days a week and we have both gone PT for the rest of the week (me 4 days, DH 3 days) which works really well. I know we are lucky, although it has been hard finding DH a PT job that fits, but I think we are finally there...for now, when DD1 starts school that will be a new set of logistics to work out.

Both our employers want us to work FT so it is a constant battle and dilemma though.

I would also agree with those saying how hard it is to get back into the workforce after a long abscence. As someone who interviews people I would have reservations about someone who had been not working for a long period.

Have a think about what gateacre says. In a couple of years DC1 wlll be at school. Also think about your pension. And the economic circumstances at the moment. Your DH may have a new job but no-one is safe from redundancy at the moment, it's not a great idea to close off one income stream.

YABU to ask this in AIBU

I don't know why you are getting a hard time over the £100 left after childcare - of course you wouldn't be expected to live on that £100, but as a couple you'd only be £100 better off. It makes sense to look at the earnings of the person who would otherwise stay at home when considering childcare costs.

In your calculations don't forget that it's not just £100, it's £100 plus National Insurance contributions plus pension contributions plus keeping up your skills and not having a gap on your CV.

I work evenings, dh works earlies. He is home by 3. I start at 5. So, no childcare needed. We have a 5yr old and a 2yr old.

When I had ds I worked 30 hours a week which I managed to cram into 3.5 days, my mum had ds one of the days, mil had him another full day and he was in nursery 1.5 days. I was very grateful for the help! When dd came along I initially went back to same hours, but after a couple of months it was clear that both gms were struggling with a 6mo and a 2 yo for a full day, so I looked into nursery, which proved to be so expensive that I would effectively be paying to go to work. I switched to 25 hours and a job closer to home, with mil doing 1 half day and my mum doing 2 half days, with them in nursery 3 half days. Without my family's help there would be no way that I could have afforded to work with 2 dc until at least one of them had a funded nursery place.
I recently had to turn down a very good promotion as it was ft hours and the additional childcare costs for after school care and cm in the hols would have meant I would have been bringing home £250 a month less than I was working 25 hours, and I would have been much more stressed and have had less time to spend with my kids. I don't blame anyone who looks at the sums and decides to stay at home rather than work lots of hours, pay most of their wage in childcare and not see as much of their kids as they would like.

mendip I'm the high earner too. I will return (possibly reduced to four days from five, if I can make that happen) to work and my DP will be the main carer.

He runs his own business and does one day a week work for someone - so he will continue to do that day if I can get four days, and he will run his own stuff during the evenings/weekends.

I really do think this issue is a family one, not a women's one, in this day and age. It's really mysoginistic to assume it's the woman that can't 'afford' to work.

Hi all, I posted further up the thread saying that I was in a similar position to the OP in that I had about £100 left after tax.

Last night DH got home and told me that his contract would not be renewed when it ends in Nov. They really like him but there simply isn't enough work. There are NO jobs in his specialty area in the whole of London. The last time he lost his job it took him 18 months to find another And he is in an industry that is traditionally recession-proof.

As of 8 weeks time we will be back to relying on my salary, though obviously we will massively cut back on childcare (DH will do it, albeit unwillingly!) If I had not gone back to work after DD we would be in a very, very dangerous position.

Tinky - and anyone else thinking this through, please take this story to heart and remember it's about more than the immediate money. We are about to enter a double dip recession and it's going to get hard again next year. No-one's job is guaranteed

I'm not making this up to make a point btw. Am currently alternating between being cheery with my colleagues and sobbing in the loo. Oh, and did I mention I'm 14 weeks pregnant?