to think that the average MNetter has a pretty rosy view about life in the "average" relationship

[livingonthedge]

Have been lurking for a while now and have seen several threads from (usually) women who live with men who shout, swear at them or manipulate them. Replies are invariably "this is abuse so leave him".

I agree that it is abuse but am not sure about the advice or that it is as uncommon as some make out. I think that (sadly) many (usually) men (sometimes women) have real anger management issues or control issues and that the partner gets the brunt of it.

A quick poll of a friends - one with OH who frequently yells verbal abuse; one "has to have sex every day" (or OH "loses it") and one who has no access to money (just housekeeping) and has things like time to bed and to get up dictated by OH. All stay because they look at the alternative and decide to put up with it.

If someone has a career which pays enough to cover the childcare; or if they are so wealthy that they can come out of the relationship with enough to put down a reasonable deposit on a house; or alternatively if they could get social housing then maybe it is a real alternaitve but for a lot of women I do not think that the desicion is that clear cut. Life in a hostel or refuge is not something that they want for their children. In many areas getting social housing with no obvious bruises or proof of abuse isn't that easy.

"supprt from family or frends" assumes that your family agree that the relationship is abusive and that you have friends that can help. My family would not consider it abuse (note that I am not saying that it isn't abuse - I thnk that it is - but my parents would just say that women have put up with worse etc - ie would not help me (my sister was in this position and was not helped). Friends (as above) are in similar relationships and so cannot help (can't see their OHs allowing it :) ).

Am not complaining - just trying to point out what life is really like for many "normal" people. Am not sending this for some "dodgy estate" - my friends and I would be classed as "typically middle class" by most people's definitions. Life is simply not as rosy as all seem to think.

Yes, herebe, said so much better than I. Thank you, that is what I meant. I would never lay the blame for poor male behaviour at the feet of women.

How about we move away from concepts of blame and look more to issue of taking responsibility for your own health and happiness

Spero - now that I heartily agree with:)

Take away the victim mentality, its a straightjacket.

The most depressing thing about control is how insidious it is and how prevalent.
I've just read a thread elsewhere where a woman is asking for advice on a going out dress that she has to wear with flats because her husband has told her she isn't to wear heels.

And she is perfectly accepting of this.

That kind of quiet control is everywhere and so many women seem to think it's perfectly normal and okay. I don't know how on earth we ever tackle this low level suppression and curtailment of women's lives.

The woman in question thinks it's perfectly reasonable to go along with his request.

I agree that low-level control is very common Jilly, and I think it happens with both men and women. I have a couple of male friends who are genuinely lovely kind people but who seem to end up with controlling women time and time again. I'm not sure they would class the relationships as abusive but they are definitely not healthy - I've had a friend completely change who he was basically to suit his girlfriend. She dumped him and I thought he'd seen the light but as soon as she snapped her fingers he came running back and though she promised him the earth she treated him just as badly all over again.

He asked my honest opinion about the whole thing and I didn't pull any punches - I said she was a bitch and he was allowing himself to be treated like dirt. I also had to point out to him that he deserved better and that he didn't have to put up with what was happening. This seemed something of a revelation to him - he has very low self esteem and really didn't consider his own feelings and wishes important. He also felt so bad about himself that he thought the changes his gf was making to him were necessary. It was a very hard talk. Thankfully the next time she pulled one of her stunts (not calling him over Christmas as he hadn't done exactly as she wanted) he played her at her own game and rather than running after her begging forgiveness he just didn't call her. She just dropped him like a hot brick as it was clear she couldn't control him any more. The day he said they'd broken up I was ecstatic. That same girl pulled the strings of another friend of mine for years, making him believe she'd go out with him when she most certainly wouldn't, until he finally saw the light. She is just a toxic person who will never change. She is an abuser but would never ever see herself that way.