to consider taking my DD out of a perfectly good school to HE?

[FigsAndWine]

I am considering taking my 8 year old DD out of school and home educating. My reasons and reservations are detailed here

I've read a bit about HE and I'm feeling more and more that I want to do this. The two people whom I thought would be really negative about this (my best friend and my DM) have been very positive about it and think it would benefit DD. My DP thinks I'm a bit nuts (but then he does anyway... ) but will support my decision. My exDP (DD's dad) is also in a good postion to HE, as he is self employed and therefore flexible with his time, and is very involved with DD.

The school DD is at is a good one. It is over-subscribed, good with outstanding features according to ofsted. I just think that DD would thrive more out of a school environment. It will be a squeeze financially to afford extras (trips, classes, activities), but we could manage. I work part time and could fit HE around this.

The reason I'm posting in aibu is because I know all the reasons why I want to do this; I guess I want to hear some opposing opinions so I can feel whether they are enough to make me change my mind.

Fire away!

LeQueen I find it hard to believe that all of the 30-40 children you tutored were ?odd? ? the ones I met on Wednesday struck me as normal, pleasant and well-adjusted, albeit I only met them briefly. Based on the multitudes of posts from you that I?ve read in the past, I would venture that your interpretation is more about your own very narrow definition of acceptably ?normal?, than what many other people would consider to be odd. I expect that you would consider me to be odd, and my DD too (whether she is schooled or HEed), and frankly, I don?t give a damn!

I?m not sure where I gave the impression that my considering HE was due to not liking the morning routine? Did y?all actually read my posts?

I?m damned if I do and damned if I don?t; if I talk about my feelings regarding HE, then I?m accused of making this all about me. If I talk about DD?s reasons for wanting HE, then I?m accused of pandering to her needs and creating a little emperor. If I make the decision then I?m selfish, if I let her contribute to the decision, then I?m weak and indulgent. It makes me laugh!

Imnotmyself you make some good points, and ones that concern me regarding the socialisation aspect, especially because DD does have issues around how she relates to others. I?ll respond in more detail later.

cantfind thank you ? really useful post with your experience of HE.

Imperial I don?t know why you?re getting exasperated; I think I have taken on board many different points of view here, and haven?t dismissed or ignored anything that I thought was thoughtfully and intelligently presented. At the moment I am of the feeling that I?m not going to HE at the moment, but I?m really glad that I?ve got so much more information and the debate here has helped me clarify in my mind what I?m feeling about this and how it could work (or not work) for us, both now and in the future. HE remains an option for me, depending on how things develop for DD at school, and I feel better equipped now for hearing all of these opinions and experiences. How is that exasperating?

Takver I think you are absolutely spot on.

As a private tutor (teacher by trade) I have met many HE children. I have not met one that I would describe as remotely odd, and their families are from all walks of life...generally very well educated, middle class types.

There is nothing wrong with HE done well. Blind faith in a one size fits all state ed system designed to churn out workers is not the answer for everyone.

Figs, just a thought, if your daughter is struggling a bit socially maybe something like drama would be useful to her? It helps build confidence and would give her the opportunity to make some friends outside of school too.

Ninky, when I read the first sentence of your post, I thought you were going to say the thing that makes HEors hearts sink:

'and every single one was really very strange and years behind etc.'

I nearly cheered out loud when I read the rest of it!

Ninky said "There is nothing wrong with HE done well. Blind faith in a one size fits all state ed system designed to churn out workers is not the answer for everyone." I agree.

bumbley I think DD would love drama. The problem with her is not lack of confidence, however; she appears to have much too much bags of this, although she is sensitive and easily wounded underneath the facade (you'd not know it from her ferocity).

My DM has been saying for a while that DD would enjoy and benefit from a drama class. The list of local HE activities has a drama group. I'll look into finding an extra curricular one, although I must say I've always thought that she's quite enough of a drama queen already, and didn't need any further encouragement.

What do people think about the competitive element of school? I was indelibly competitive and I'm sure it did push me to work harder, knowing that if I did I could beat others. If I had been home educated I suppose I would have been able to continue with that as I'm a twin and we would have competed against each other, but only children (or children of different ages) don't have that. I'm not too clear on current schooling techniques - is competition still considered a good thing, or not? (NB: I was probably so competitive because I was a twin and we were compared during our entire school life! But Dad was the worst for doing it and that would have been exactly the same if we were HE.)

I'm on the fence with HE in general because I enjoyed school for the most part. I suppose that is my other point - kids can and do really enjoy school, and it may be that your daughter's problems with the other kids are temporary and she would start to enjoy it later on. No way of knowing in advance though, so I don't envy your decision!

TooImmature - I dont get the impression from my DCs that their schools have been particularly competitive. I have two 'top set' DCs and one 'middle of the road' DC. All seem to bumble along quite happily. I think that at least for them the competitiveness is quite low key. On the other hand they arent particularly competitive generally so perhaps there is an alpha student competition which has just washed over them!

If anything, they have been more enquiring and self-motivated than many of the state educated teens I tutor. Not sure if there is a correlation...

I have also noticed less of the typical teenagery traits, less sulking etc and more confident, adult chat.

Ninky it just depends on the child anmd the family. HE doesnt make a teenager more conforming to adult world or self motivated.

Absolutely. I was merely commenting on the experiences I have had.

?- In school children socialise independantly of their parents. They make friendships which perhaps their parents wouldnt like. Possibly parents then become friends with the other parents but IME 9/10 not.? I agree with this and I don?t want her to make friends I disapprove of can see that different people and their points of view will help DD develop her own personality.

?- In school children get to take small responsibilities eg playground monitor, library assistant or whatever. - In school children progress through with a large number of other children of the same age. Friendships evolve over time. There are opportunities for small independences eg being allowed to walk to school alone or with friends.? I agree with this too. DD is fiercely independent and relishes those opportunities. She loves that she now walks half the way to school in the mornings. She was gutted today that she didn?t get elected to the school council (I tried to explain and explore why that might be the case, although she wasn?t very willing), and it?s these experiences that would (potentially, hopefully) help her understand herself and others, and moderate her behaviour.

?- Can HE provide the same? Arent the friendships at HE groups essentially the friendships of the parents as well? Where's the independence? Where are the inappropriate friendships (also good for children!) Where are the groups of friends which swirl and change as children grow?? I agree that there is is less autonomy for the child in choosing friends, and a smaller ?pool? of potential friends from which to choose.

?- Are there the opportunities for taking small responsibilities where there is a parent hovering nearby?? I?m not a hovering parent ? never have been.

?IMO it is irrelevant that the OP's daughter wants to be HE. I am sure that my precocious little madam of a DD would have liked to be HE for the 1:1 attention. The thing is, I'm the grown up, it's my decision not hers. In all its imperfection I think that school is the best place for the vast majority of children. That the OP's daughter doesnt like the discipline of school and doesnt want to go is IMO even more reason why she should go to school.? So you don?t take your DD?s wants and needs into account when you make your decisions? I don?t think my DD knows what?s best for her; that?s why I?m quite dictatorial as a parent. But if I didn?t take her feelings, fears, desires and preferences into account, then I would be failing her, imo.

Others have been very quick to share experiences of 'odd' HE'd children they have encountered, my experiences have been different so I thought they were worth sharing.

Is there a possibility that HE makes a teenager (or younger) too conforming to the adult world? Spending too long with adults and not enough time with peers?

Perish the thought but can a teenager be too good? IMO yes. The teenage years are supposed to be about a bit of rebellion, a bit of finding ones own way.

Figs I think you listen to your childs wants but you listen as an adult recognising she is a child. My DD is not aware that HE exists as it is not an option (I believe in state education for the vast, vast majority). I do think that the difficulties you see your daughter having are evidences of problems she needs to work on in the school environment rather than avoid and hope they will go away.

If you HE I think you will struggle not to hover. What are the small responsibilities you can give without you being close by? If I think of what my DD has been able to do in the last couple of years of primary..

• library assistant
• playground buddy
• messenger
• school fete organising committee member
• ........

Add to this walking on her own or with friends to/from school every day.

So Imnotmyself you believe that square pegs should always try to fit into round holes? You believe in state education for the majority...that doesn't mean much...and just because your child doens't know it exists doesn't mean it's worth less...or isn't valid.

I'm afraid life is not that simple.

Your list of things your DD has done in the last couple of years is lovely..but it in no way makes the things a home educated child can do "less".

A HE child can be all of those things and more.

Some famous people who have been home educated include

Jennifer Love Hewitt
Katy Perry
Whoopi Goldberg
Christina Aguilera
Hilary Duff

Emma Thompson was planning to HE her daughter for the last year of primary..its becoming more and more common in the UK.

I'm aware the list above is made up of Americans...but it does show that HE girls can come out particularly strong.

Who says school is the best place for children? Who? The state that's who. Do you trust THEM with everything? I doubt it.

"what are the small responsibilities you can give without you being close by"

I would say;
-going to the local shop on her own(dealing with money, people, shoppinh list)
-going to a shop a bit further away
-going to the library on her own (finding specific books/information, asking for help when needed)
-walk to a friends house
-go to the park with friends (no adults)
-get involved in a local voluntary group
-brownies (getting all the diff badges)
-cook for herself/the family

and about a trillion other 'small responsibilities' that are probably of more real world use than 'playground buddy' or 'hometime bell ringing monitor'

Who says school is the best place for children? Who? The state that's who. Do you trust THEM with everything? I doubt it.

I say so too. I absolutely adored it as a small DC-would have gone at weekends too. Of course I don't trust the state with everything. As a parent I choose a good school.

Schools give you so much more than the academic side.

I would have hated to have been stuck with my siblings all day, with my mother trying to suit us all-an absolute impossibility as we were very different ages, different personalities and different interests. As it was we had time apart and could get on well.

I would have hated my parents to have to try and make things educational and a time for learning. If I asked a question-I wanted a simple quick answer-not a science, geography lesson etc.

I would have hated not being able to make my own friends and see them every day. I would have been stuck with the ones that my mother particularly liked.

I would have hated not having others to share ideas with and give me inspiration.

I particularly liked being taught. Subjects that you think of as being boring often turn out to be the most interesting. I hate, and still do, that dreadful term 'facilitate' my learning.

It did me good to have to sort out things for myself, especially if they went wrong and were difficult-not have my mother around to do it for me.

I have always been interested in people and what makes them tick-plenty to observe every day in school-and know them well.

School was for just me-my world-something separate from home-something that my family only knew about if I told them.

School takes up a very short part of the day, it is only for 5 days of the week and there are 13weeks with no school-ample time to do things as a family and enjoy them.

If I want to know something now I join a class with others and a teacher-I do not like to work it out for myself at home.

That's weird, Internet info says that Whoopi Goldberg attended a Catholic primary school dropped out of high school at age 14 (addict by 17, married and a mother at 18, grandmother at 34, quite a life!)

Two schools that Christina Aguilera attended.

Looks like Hilary Duff & JLove Hewitt were home-educated (I suspect that means hired tutors, too) because of lives on the road as child performers, though JLH attended a conventional LA high school, too.

Perry, looks like she was HEd for extreme religious reasons except when attending Christian schools and camps, before attending a conventional high school briefly (not HEd after that, just got her GED early).

Lots of actors will have been HE part time with tutors-there are rules about it if young. I don't think it meant they were at home with their families doing it as a life style.

Figs, Re drama, I think I had quite a similar personality to your DD when I was growing up and as a result, I struggled to fit in with a lot of people in my class. It was only when I started doing drama that I really came into myself because it was an outlet for all my confidence and my 'drama queen' tendencies I got to meet a lot of similar people and really be myself because being slightly 'different' in drama class isn't a bad thing. I would really recommend it. We got to travel around to different theatres and put on performances with other drama groups throughout the country as part of little drama festivals. It really was the best thing I could ever have done.

You can however do the drama bit with school, as most of the DCs there will be at school.

Yes, you could, in my own experience the ones outside of school were better and, as I pointed out earlier, it would give her an opportunity to make friends outside of school too.