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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to consider taking my DD out of a perfectly good school to HE?

336 replies

FigsAndWine · 13/09/2011 22:09

I am considering taking my 8 year old DD out of school and home educating. My reasons and reservations are detailed here

I've read a bit about HE and I'm feeling more and more that I want to do this. The two people whom I thought would be really negative about this (my best friend and my DM) have been very positive about it and think it would benefit DD. My DP thinks I'm a bit nuts (but then he does anyway... Grin ) but will support my decision. My exDP (DD's dad) is also in a good postion to HE, as he is self employed and therefore flexible with his time, and is very involved with DD.

The school DD is at is a good one. It is over-subscribed, good with outstanding features according to ofsted. I just think that DD would thrive more out of a school environment. It will be a squeeze financially to afford extras (trips, classes, activities), but we could manage. I work part time and could fit HE around this.

The reason I'm posting in aibu is because I know all the reasons why I want to do this; I guess I want to hear some opposing opinions so I can feel whether they are enough to make me change my mind.

Fire away! Grin

OP posts:
FlamingoBingo · 15/09/2011 09:38

How about becoming less authoritarian?

Read Idle Parenting by Tom Hodgkinson - fantastic book. Also How Children Learn at Home by Alan Thomas and Harriet Pattison

I disagree that your relationship could worsen if you were to spend more time together. On the contrary, you may find that, with the extra time to spend cuddling, and talking, you may be able to work together to improve your relationship.

I dread to think what my relationship with my children would be like if I had to coerce them to get ready for school each day and force them to do homework etc. with very little time to boost the good bits IYSWIM. I'm not saying that's how it is for all school kids, before anyone jumps down my throat, but I am also a highly strung, tense Mum and I know that the time I spent with my kids, were they in school, would be mostly negative, full of nagging and bickering. As it is, we do have a fair amount of that, but also hours and hours of snuggling on the sofa reading, visiting places together that we all enjoy, long conversations etc. to balance it out.

Does that make sense?

tittybangbang · 15/09/2011 09:54

"I always hate the idea that a particular type of education suits all"

I so agree. Round this way the grammar schools are STUFFED with kids from private schools and children who've had lots of tutoring.

It must be because kids from inner city primaries often just don't have the same intellectual potential as kids from well-off families.

Hmm

Honestly, as far as I can see, arguments about different schools suiting different children is generally used as justification for hiving off middle-class kids from their working class peers. I refuse to believe that there aren't just as many children with academic potential at my dc's inner city primary as there are at private prep schools or church primaries with a very middle class intake. Yet only a fraction of the number of children from my dc's school will end up in secondary schools which have a strong emphasis on academic learning. Most will end up at the local comp doing BTECS. Sad

exoticfruits · 15/09/2011 10:11

That is exactly what I mean by suiting the DC. As a DC I wanted to be taught-I would have hated to have someone 'facilitate my learning'-we are all different-it suits some but I can't imagine anything worse. Even as an adult if I want to learn something I go to a class with a teacher.

sieglinde · 15/09/2011 10:35

Yes, tittybang, that's really my problem with Eton. It makes a FEW people happy. Just saying too that there is a powerful layer of society for whom it's compulsory to send the dcs to boarding school for the sake of their social development and extracurricular stuff, and I don't think ALL of us would agree that this is indeed vital. I could have the same conversation with a different group of people about my idiocy in not putting ds down for Winchester. (PS I can't afford it and I'm not poor enough for a bursary).

It does seem as if the comps in some areas are letting able dcs who don't happen to be middle-class down badly. For some of these, HE MIGHT be one alternative among others. You are of course then addressing the problem only at individual level.

exoticfruits · 15/09/2011 10:49

The great thing about Eton is that you can't put your DC down at birth anymore. They only take the best academically.
It isn't only HEers who fit the DC to what they want to do. Grammar schools are only for the really academic DS -if you need a tutor to get a place it should show you that your DC isn't suited. I have 3 DCs-only one was suited to a grammar school-luckily we don't have any and they all went to the same excellent comprehensive-which suited them all ,although I did think for a few months that DS2 might need to go to a private school. Luckily the comprehensive got their act together and it saved the expense.

exoticfruits · 15/09/2011 10:50

The boys that I saw at Eton were very happy and thriving there. It wouldn't have suited my DSs.

sieglinde · 15/09/2011 11:07

exotic, if you want one of Eton's very rare bursaries, you do have to go about it fairly early on.... and you do have to put them down for Winchester, though they then get a kind of conditional offer depending on CE or CE Schol. Personally, if you guys think HE parents and kids are odd, you ain't seen nothing till you've seen the collegers at Winchester, and the Master, Mr Land. But I say this with no dislike; just it's not Joe Average Town.

And this is where I ask why so many of you WANT your kids NOT to be odd? I mean, in my case it's past praying for, I fear, but others do seem to pray heartily for the normal...

exoticfruits · 15/09/2011 12:20

Of course you have to go about it early on but you can't ring up at birth and get a place at 'your' old house the way you could. It doesn't matter how much money you have and how many generations went there, you have to get in on your own merits which is much better. I wouldn't want my DSs to go-I don't think they are suited to it. I also don't think they are suited to HE and I certainly am not.
Children are 'odd' in any walk of life and with any education.
There are fantastic schools and dire ones and everything in between and there are fantastic HEers and dire ones and everything inbetween
Wanting to HE doesn't mean that you are necessarily any good at it.

glitterkitten · 15/09/2011 12:27

i consider education/school environment as a good introduction to adult life in general.

there may not be people you like at school, it might be big and busy and scary, you might much prefer to be at home, but at the end of the day you are going to have to get a job in the big bad world and deal with the above on a daily basis.

it must come as a huge unsettling shock to HE children who don't have the skills to fit into a workplace because they haven't had opportunity to deal with all the stresses that brings.

school is a micro society. you can't replicate that at home.

marfisa · 15/09/2011 13:17

Exoticfruits said:
Children are 'odd' in any walk of life and with any education. There are fantastic schools and dire ones and everything in between and there are fantastic HEers and dire ones and everything inbetween Wanting to HE doesn't mean that you are necessarily any good at it.

Well said!

exoticfruits · 15/09/2011 17:30

This is on AIBU -but if you go on HE threads they will insist that anyone can HE and it is always better than school, they will not accept that it can be damaging to the DC. I don't know why: some schools are damaging to the DC-excellent schools can be damaging if they don't suit that particular DC and yet all parents have to be good.
I was a teacher-and good at it. I wasn't good with my own DCs educationally, DH was much better at helping them-the relationship was too close. It would have spoilt my very good relationship as mother.

FigsAndWine · 15/09/2011 19:11

PassTheTwiglets said ?My main concern when thinking about HE was the social side of it - not that my DD would lack social opportunities with HE (anybody who thinks that clearly knows nothing about HE!) but that it would be my responsibility. I'm not a very outgoing person and unless you already have a large network of friends (I don't) then you would presumably have to work hard at making these opportunities happen. I think I would find it quite hard to walk into a well-established group as the new girl and to get really involved in the HE scene. That might not bother you at all though!? Yes the social side does still bother me too, and for exactly the reasons you describe ? the responsibility aspect. I don?t doubt for a moment that the opportunities are out there, but there are days when I don?t want to see anyone, answer the phone, talk to people. On those days, I think it would be harder to motivate myself to take DD to sociable things. OTOH, I could always take her and bury my nose in a book ? win-win situation then. Grin I must say that the HE group I went to yesterday was really friendly and welcoming. The facilitators both had a lovely chat with me, told me about people in my village/adjacent town, and introduced me to various people at the the group to ask questions; all of whom were very pleasant and happy to chat. I got the impression that the HE scene is a very open and welcoming one, and that you would be included easily if you chose to HE. I was amazed at how many activities and meets are available in my area ? something every day, and swimming lessons that are cheaper than at school Shock). The yahoo mailing group for HE in SW Surrey is over 90 families, apparently. I was fascinated to find out that there are at least five families within a mile or so of me ? it?s very exciting discovering that they are living among us, like freemasons or swingers! Grin

Flamingo I was reading the ?How children learn at home? book at the HE group yesterday ? very interesting. I?ve just looked at the idle parenting one on amazon and will get it from the library. I have to say, though, that I think I have being idle down pat in pretty much every area of my life... Blush Regarding the authoritarian style of parenting, I feel like I should clarify what I meant again. It?s her manners and her arguing that I?m inflexible and authoritarian about. I will not tolerate her speaking rudely or refusing to do what she?s told, once I?ve made up my mind. I?m not a hovering parent at all though, and am thrilled more than happy for her to go off and amuse herself, be independent etc.

?I disagree that your relationship could worsen if you were to spend more time together. On the contrary, you may find that, with the extra time to spend cuddling, and talking, you may be able to work together to improve your relationship. I dread to think what my relationship with my children would be like if I had to coerce them to get ready for school each day and force them to do homework etc. with very little time to boost the good bits IYSWIM. I'm not saying that's how it is for all school kids, before anyone jumps down my throat, but I am also a highly strung, tense Mum and I know that the time I spent with my kids, were they in school, would be mostly negative, full of nagging and bickering. As it is, we do have a fair amount of that, but also hours and hours of snuggling on the sofa reading, visiting places together that we all enjoy, long conversations etc. to balance it out.?
This is exactly how I feel ? there?s so much time spent fire-fighting; getting her up in the mornings, constant chivvying to eat (drink) breakfast, brush hair, clean teeth etc. And for the bright spark who said ?oh my 6 year old is ready when I get up? well bully for you ? mine isn?t, and unless I want us to be late every day instead of some days, then I find I need to say ?DD, drink your smoothie? approximately 30 times per morning, or she will stretch it out over 45 mins (rather than the allotted 20 mins). Hmm
Then after school, the almost inevitable meltdown as she decompresses from the day. When she?s at home with me we get on a lot better.

Having said that, after a day at home yesterday DD was bright and cheerful this morning, awake before I went in to her, and happy to go to school. Despite having been ?kicked in the stomach and it also hit me right in my vulva and I?d like to see how YOU would have wanted to eat your lunch after THAT happened to you? (shouted at me when I asked how her day was... Hmm), she was cheerful this afternoon, talked enthusiastically about a story they read and analysed in school today, and has had a friend round. She?s still here, despite my saying ?only ?til 6.30? as they are so happy playing monopoly. Tbh I think five days school in a row is too much for DD to process without quite a bit of stress and meltdown. I can totally understand that, but I don?t know what to do about it. I can?t just take her out of school when she wants and needs time out, but I?m not sure that HE would be better in the long run either.

In any case, this thread has really helped me explore the feelings I have about HE versus mainstream education, what DD wants and needs, and what I would or wouldn?t be capable of giving her. I?m really grateful for all the very well thought out, insightful and useful posts that people have contributed. Smile

OP posts:
ImperialBlether · 15/09/2011 19:17

You're asking for trouble, Figs, if you said 6.30 but the child is still there 45 minutes later. This will delay the time your daughter goes to bed and therefore the time she goes to sleep and then tomorrow she'll be tired again.

I think you quite like the idea of the lifestyle. That's all very well but the HE has to be the best thing for your daughter, not a new way of making friends or passing the time yourself. Nothing you've said has made me think your child would be happier being home educated.

glitterkitten · 15/09/2011 19:37

figs if you cant reinforce her having to get up, ready and out for school of a morning at her age, how would she cope at uni doing it herself? Or having to get up for a job? She ain't going to be doing it then if she's not taught that this is a must!

It all seems a little bit more convenient to you to not have to deal with the stresses and strains of a normal daily routine.

ImperialBlether · 15/09/2011 20:22

Also, glitter, if she can't get up to go to school without a problem, how likely is it she'd get up to start work because her mum said so?

I got that impression too - it's a lifestyle thing, I think.

FigsAndWine · 15/09/2011 20:29

Imperial it didn't delay her bedtime - she was in bed for 7.30pm, but it left no winding down time. She was hyped and overexcited, which can result in a total meltdown very often (it didn't tonight actually - she went up with minimal arguing). The reason I left them was partly that it's now Thurs., so there's only one day left of school and for her to be knackered if she really kicks off and doesn't sleep soon, and partly that it's so lovely to watch her interacting with this particular child one-on-one; they're very well matched, and I didn't want to cut it short.

"I think you quite like the idea of the lifestyle. That's all very well but the HE has to be the best thing for your daughter, not a new way of making friends or passing the time yourself."
I do like the idea of the HE lifestyle, and so does DD (both of us very much), but I'm very aware that the perceived lifestyle is an ideal, and I'm trying to picture the actual likely reality. It's not a new way of making friends for me (I'm an antisocial cow really, and have enough friends), and I have plenty of things to pass the time, thanks (would be a little Hmm if your previous posts hadn't been very thoughtful...). Whether it's the best thing for DD is my main concern, and the jury is still out on that one.

OP posts:
MumblingRagDoll · 15/09/2011 20:48

God...if I had a group or network like that here in Cheshire I would HE in a heartbeat.

School only became "normal" in around 1900....before that rich kids were taught at home or sent away and poor ones worked.

The industial revolution happened...kids were misused in factories and mills and so school for the masses was born. We've only been obsessed with school for the last 100 years....Ok...no everyone can HE their kids...but some can and they shouldn't be penalised by others who choose the school journey.

Perhaps now we are having another revolution (internet) school will become less fashionable.

juuule · 15/09/2011 20:56

"and partly that it's so lovely to watch her interacting with this particular child one-on-one; they're very well matched, and I didn't want to cut it short."

If she was home-ed it wouldn't matter that she played longer with her friend and went to bed later. She could get up later in the morning.

"if she can't get up to go to school without a problem, how likely is it she'd get up to start work because her mum said so?"

My dd had late morning starts. She now does very well getting up for college and has a good work ethic. Education (including academic work) doesn't have to be restricted to school times when home-educating. The later nights/ later mornings aren't the problem they might be for a school child..

FigsAndWine · 15/09/2011 21:27

juuule I agree completely, and Mumbling I wish you were here. Wink

At the moment my balance is tipped towards keeping her in school for now, but I'm really glad that I've had this conversation. Smile

glitter said "figs if you cant reinforce her having to get up, ready and out for school of a morning at her age, how would she cope at uni doing it herself? Or having to get up for a job? She ain't going to be doing it then if she's not taught that this is a must!"
So we should work on indoctrinating our children into a life of doing what they doesn't want to do, from the age of 3 onwards, should we? Good little soldier ants. Hmm

OP posts:
exoticfruits · 15/09/2011 21:38

They are fairly dreadful if they only ever do what they want to do-'little emperors'.
We all have to do things that we don't want to-I don't see why adults have to put themselves out all the time to suit DCs.
Life is full of non negotiable things for their own good-cleaning teeth, eating vegetables, getting dressed etc.if that meand 'good little soldier ants' then so be it-you do need to cooperate and work as a team.

exoticfruits · 15/09/2011 21:39

means-not meand

juuule · 15/09/2011 22:00

While early-to-bed, early-to-rise might be 'for their own good' when they have to be up early for school on weekdays, home-ed children without a pressing need to be up early can lie-in.
I don't think this turns them into 'little emperors'. Children at school can sleep later at the weekend if they are tired. This wouldn't cause them to become 'little emperors' either.

If children "only ever do what they want to do" then there might be a possibility of 'little emperor'ness. But that's not what is being said. If a decision is taken that there is no harm in the night-time activity continuing for a bit longer, as sleep can be caught up on in the morning, then I can't see why that would be a problem.

glitterkitten · 15/09/2011 22:01

More preparing them for real life figs if you allow your daughter to fuss about getting up, teeth cleaned, dressed and fed in the morning to such an extent that you'd pull her out of school to ease the fuss, you are allowing her to be "little emperor". When she has to be up, dressed, teeth cleaned and out to get to work five days a week she will have a horrendous time dealing with it!

Millions of other mothers soldier through the morning routine with their dc.

I'm not against HE if for example the school was deficient, or child was severely bullied to the point he or she dreaded going in. From your posts, the main driving force seems to be making yours and your DD life easier, more relaxed. It's just not a precedent for real life and your motivation seems skewed.

exoticfruits · 15/09/2011 22:04

I think that a morning routine is good for anyone and it means that you really appreciate weekends that are different.

juuule · 15/09/2011 22:06

"When she has to be up, dressed, teeth cleaned and out to get to work five days a week she will have a horrendous time dealing with it!"

Or she might not. It can be a completely different situation hassling a reluctant 8yo out to school and a more mature and understanding college student/employee getting themselves out of the door to college/work.

Also, getting a child to school on time and complying with the dressing/teeth stuff doesn't guarantee a willing and able college student/employee..

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