STAND UP AND BE COUNTED AND STOP THE ATTACKS ON SN PARENTS

[4madboys]

ok NOT an aibu, but this is where it will be seen the most and it NEEDS awareness.

quite frankly, i along with others am appalled at the comments that are being made and left to stand, toward the SN community, they are downright offensive and quite simply appalling.

i am sure (or hope) that the majority on here do NOT agree with them but yet the SN community on mn are not being supported, whether this is because people do not know what to say, or they havent seen these posts i do not know?

BUT IT IS ABOUT TIME THAT THINGS CHANGED, so this a thread where you can stand up and be counted and say that you do not agree with the disregard, blatant trolling and offensive behaviour towards our lovely mn who have or are dealing with sn in their family.

they need this place for support, not the vile behaviour that they are getting.

so please post here and show your support and help make a change for the better.

all it takes is a smile next to your name to show you agree :)

I didn't see what Middlesex's post says, would be greatful if someone would tell me/pm me?

Lissie please don't go, you are a huge asset here

MNHQ WT actual F is going here at the moment, so we have to self police, but make sure we are nicey nicey to the trolls/arseholes who stir because if we say a naughty word you'll jump straight to it, never mind the offensive posts from trolls/arseholes which stand for ages...........

All of a sudden we all have to be lovely all the time, we're fucking adults ffs.

I think it is time we got proper clarification of what the actual policy on deletions is.

not a "well, er, we get a bit snowed under at weekends, sorry"

or a "hmm, well when we started MN, it was all a bit see-how-it-goes, and now it's grown so much , and we can't really keep up. it's all a bit seat-of-you-pants, and we are trying to keep abreast"

or "please read our talk guidelines. we adhere to those"

because it's all getting abit much now.

the deletion policy is clearly not working.

and thereis more and more deletions of swearing, or attempts to "clean up" the language. editing of thread titles. stuff that it was always sworn would never happen.

and there is stillno consistent policy on what constitutes a personal attack, or whether a post os disablist/racist/whatever ism you want.

it is no longer enough to rely on self-policing, tbh. it isn't working.

and it is disingenuous to say MN isn't moderated. it is. heavily so, but with no clear policy.

I dont think it is so very hard ot separate out robust opinion and debate from cuntish posts. and it is certainly not hard to make posters stick to talk guidleines.

but it is too much to expect the site to self police anymore- it isn't working. posters are not able to restrain themselves form spouting bile; posts which are reported are left "to promote educaiton and stimulate awareness" while replies ot those posts are deleted for breaching talk guidelines.

it is farcical, tbh, and I am not surprised so many have left (SN posters in particular). this is not a recent exodus, either. it has been happening for a long itme, and presumably MNHQ have been ok about it as the influx of new posters outnumbered those leaving. but what it has meant is the new imbalance there now is: not enough decent posters, and a whole lot more poster willing and able to try ot prove they can shout loudest and longest.

I think I know what's happened here. MNHQ have all gone on holiday together and left those boys in tech in charge of the place.

It's a shame to see this happening to MN. As someone else said, it's getting to be like Bounty .

We'll all be in a 'community' next, singing Kumbuya and having bake sales.

Mouseface, I don't think it's the Techs - they wouldn't be so trigger happy, I'm sure - but I do think there is either a new MNHQer or a new Bounty/Nethunsesque policy in place.

Startafire - I think you are maybe overstating things a little bit.

You can't just delete posts because you don't like someone's opinion. It is their opinion and they are entitled to it within the parameters of the law.

FUCK OFF MIDDLESEX

Maybe we need to get cunning

I spoke at the start of the thread and have been watching.

Startafire has a point, MN has it backwards, you can say what you want about an individual, but you cannot target a group, as a whole, that is 'hate speech' or inciting hatred. So they should not be deleating one poster calling another but should be deleating posts with make a statement about say children diagnosed with ADHD.

at hobs you naughty girl!

Thumb - fair point and yes, I feel a village church setting creeping into MN.

DISCLAIMER - I have nothing against villages or churches before I get flamed!

i'm sorry but i'm not clear about the answers to these questions and feel a bit of a twat reporting things to people who for all i know might be thinking of fuck off you dirty single parent slapper being disabled and claiming benefits.

Remove the 'single parent slapper' and replace with 'disabled carer' and that's sometimes what I wonder when the deletions start but other posts are left to stand.

startafire

You are effectively calling me a bigot.

I grew up with National Front Marches up my high street, leaflets through my door, people being stabbed to death for being black.

But we have freedom of speech in this country. You might not like what people say, alot of the time I don't. But it's important they are able to say it and be openly challenged about it.

Is that what SAF was saying? That people should not have an opinion or air it?

It's not how I read it.

Love you SF

Lissie? FFS

Ama ctually beginning to think I might be a wuss for staying on! the absolute opposite of rats and ships.

I don't see how it can be ok to make derogatory comments about vulnerable people or those that care for them but you can't say someone is being a twat

I find myself aware of a distinction between "freedom of speech" and "speech used as harassment".

So I might have an opinion that, say, all white people smell. I might express this opinion in a general theoretical discussion, on the internet or down the pub.

That's free speech. (Cobblers, but still free speech.)

If, on the other hand, I work with a white person, and every time I go near them I say "Pooh, white people smell!" that is not free speech. That is harassment. I am not informing people of my opinion (because they heard the first time). I am using my opinion as a stick with which to beat someone on a regular basis.

I don't think anyone would argue that the correct response to "Pooh, white people smell!" repeated on a daily basis would be for the white person to attempt to educate me, each and every time. The correct response would be for me to be told to STFU.

I have no idea how this can/should be policed, if at all. And of course there is a huge overlap where the mere existence of large groups of people in pubs saying, "You know what, white people smell," and carrying that belief into daily life, itself constitutes harassment.

But I would struggle to agree with a simplistic scenario where every utterance on every occasion should be protected as "free speech".

Tianc
Very good post.

It is tricky, the balance between promoting free speech and allowing bigotry to be posted on a website.

And we have to be aware that MNHQ are not robots, they can get things wrong - as they have with Lissie.

The question is how they deal with it.

As I have said already, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. They are stuck between those calling for lighter moderation and those calling for heavier moderation.

I do still think that the key is consistency. Perhaps it would help to have a thread where MNHQ ask about what we find offensive and try to find a balance that most people can accept.

Maybe a survey.

Tianc, yup, I'd agree with you.

Having experienced personalised 'free speech' (being called a retard etc) and 'free speech' in generalisations such as (paraphrased) "all autistic people are sinister monsters who make rubbish partners and evil parents", I know that it's possible to create an intimidating and hostile environment in all sorts of ways for disabled people and those who care for us.

It can be through ostracism, too...deliberately and repeatedly not responding to anyone from that 'sort of person' in discussions, not inviting them to things, not including them in things.

And it can be a result of general background unspoken and unrecognised prejudice, for example where marketing materials and PR materials always always feature white fit solvent happy smiley people in male-female relationships with 2.4 equally white happy smiling fit children. Or where every manager or owner of an organisation/group is white, fit, solvent, straight etc and tries to understand prejudice and what it feels like to receive it every day.

If someone makes a genuine error, fine. If it's a campaign or a big attack, absolutely not fine.

I don't go on SN board, but these threads on AIBU always seem to follow the same pattern
Someone asks a question to do with children with SN .Such as kids with SN be allowed to go to the front of the rollercoaster queue, or should we tell our child he has ADHD. Somebody answers in a way that parents with SN children don't like and respond that the poster is thick, ignorant disablist etc.The poster then ups the ante and says more forcefully what he or she thinks, the retorts then escalate back and forth until someone says something deliberately hurtful about SN children.
I really think often it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.