STAND UP AND BE COUNTED AND STOP THE ATTACKS ON SN PARENTS

[4madboys]

ok NOT an aibu, but this is where it will be seen the most and it NEEDS awareness.

quite frankly, i along with others am appalled at the comments that are being made and left to stand, toward the SN community, they are downright offensive and quite simply appalling.

i am sure (or hope) that the majority on here do NOT agree with them but yet the SN community on mn are not being supported, whether this is because people do not know what to say, or they havent seen these posts i do not know?

BUT IT IS ABOUT TIME THAT THINGS CHANGED, so this a thread where you can stand up and be counted and say that you do not agree with the disregard, blatant trolling and offensive behaviour towards our lovely mn who have or are dealing with sn in their family.

they need this place for support, not the vile behaviour that they are getting.

so please post here and show your support and help make a change for the better.

all it takes is a smile next to your name to show you agree :)

Im sure Alpine will be along to explain, in the meantime where are you keeping your horse, i want one!?

Locally ADHD is a nightmare diagnosis- well actually you won't get it as the head Ed Psych doesn't beleive it exists and has blocked referrals- but each school only gets 2 ed psych sessions per years and your child has to be pretty aggresive to be seen. Indeed ds1 and ds2 (both asd both transferred from MS into Sn base placements) only saw them at statementing time, once.

Anyway ds2 well we've worked on an apoerational dx of borerline dyspraxia for eyars, school think dyslexia but I'm not so sure; new Head walked in and said 'oh he's exactlyt eh same as my nephew, look up ADHD'; so I did (because I am quite willing to admit my ASD specialism is very narrow indeed and I know zilch about ADHD other than research I have happened upon) and he ticks every box but isn't naughty or in anyway badly behaved, and the GP sais no point referring as they are not intrested and refused (mind he also gave me crap about the DSm dropping the ASD diagnoses, becuase theya re wooly- he does tlak crap if he thinks someone has dared to educate themselves!).
So ds2 just ahs to get on with it frankly. And we will pick him up if and when he falls.

The Head of the ASD BAse has said the Ed Psych stance is driiving her potty as well because she ahs kids who need a dx so I have furnised her with some studies showingh damage to the corpus callosum in children with ADHD and some variants of ASD: I am assuming that's what happened to my lot, a genetic flaw thing (DS3 had a head injury as a baby so I do wonder if that's what caused the extra level he has).

Sorry anyway.
Yes Beirut, exactly. Time 3.5 at the moment. Was beginning to think I was in a candid camera sketch (showing my age) on Saturday when ds4 melted down in the town becuase of a smell we could not detect, ds1 started crying and getting really angry because he is struggling to be perfect at his base when he doesn;t even have to now, and DH had wandered off with (passive but therefore relatively easy if lifelong impaired) ds3 and ds2. beirut, under attack, in the middle of a small Welsh town. Fun! This morning ds4 has screamed for an hour becuase his cereal bar wrapper didn;t open properly (not sure what properly is) and is therefore broken: luckily we have been able to resort to scooby doo and he is calming then we might be able to reset the morning.

Also yes what Pag says. And it goes up and down; six months after ds1's dx ds3 was picked up; 6 months after ds2 was put on SEN register but we assumed very mildly; 2 years of sorting including ds1 being treated for an eating disorder then we are told Head thinks ADHD but has her hands tied then ds4 failed his screening and has since been picked up for SLT with a mild language delay and need glasses and I have watched him go from shy toddler to obviously asd preschooler in months. My own ability to answer questions and to take slights on the chin has varied enormously in that time from week to week. DH had a nervous breakdown, I ahd my own traits pointed out to me by a university contact during a lecture on ASD Diagnosis and I will be honest- I actually at one point stated to Dh that if it were not for the boys needing me I would have liked to just go to sleep forever. I feel less like that now only a few weeks on but it's a long old up and down ride.

Have to say I am loving 'Welcome to Beirut' much more than I like 'Welcome to Holland' which I find really boaksome.

Peachy here they dx ADHD at the drop of a hat it's ASD that we have to fight for it's a bloody nightmare even if it's obvious.

Can I just add that as a parent who has never really had any dealings or knowledge of children or adults with SN MN has been an eye opener and an education to me.

I will hold my hands up and admit I was completely ignorant of what parents and children went/go through on a daily basis. It is only through lurking and reading threads where posters have taken the time to explain something and point out others misunderstandings/naive views that have educated me and helped me understand more.

I am sorry to see that there have been yet more threads where people have felt it appropriate and acceptable to post ignorant, prejudiced or frivolous comments about children with disabilities.

I am not sure exactly what I think the answer is. I certainly have seen many comments that I think MNHQ should have deleted, rather than taking the "let's try to educate the poster" approach. I don't see why certain comments cannot be deleted to prevent hurt and upset to more and more people reading the thread - the responses to deleted comments often make it perfectly clear that someone has been bag out of order. I would imagine most parents of children with SN would far rather see a "message deleted by mumsnet" followed by several "that is outrageous" comments, than read the original, offensive post and feel compelled to try to explain, for the hundredth time, why it is offensive. Leaving comments to stand also often encourages someone else to take a controversial or attention-seeking stance and support the offensive poster - how often do you see threads where everyone is in agreement that someone has been offensive, and then along comes another poster to accuse them all of bullying?

I do agree that there are situations where someone speaks out of a lack of awareness and perhaps these posters need to be given a little more understanding - it is perfectly possible that someone can say something unintentionally offensive, have it pointed out to them, and then go on to speak out against similar comments by others.

I would certainly encourage all posters on this site to be ready to speak out against these comments whenever they see them. Even if you are not quite sure what to say on the subject, there is nothing wrong with simply saying "That is unacceptable." Not every challenge to this sort of thing needs to be a full and reasoned explanation of WHY it is unacceptable - there are plenty of people who are willing to give those explanations, but who would probably feel greatly supported by a flurry of short posts of agreement and disgust.

Perhaps if there was more regular and vocal support for the posters who are constantly fighting against these sorts of comments and attitudes, we would avoid unnecessary disputes flaring up. I was very sorry to see the exchange involving Shiney early on the thread. She is a regular poster and I am surprised anyone could possibly think that her comments were anything other than an attempt to think through the situation and work out what her views were. It would be a great shame if other supportive posters were put off stepping into these situations because they were worried about being misunderstood and attacked.

Thank you Steel.

borders I know that school SENCO refused a referral for a child with asd recently, although I only know becuase an SN Mum was temping as a teacher at the school and told me what was going on- it's handy having a foor in both camps of parent and professional! Luckily ds4 went in already with a referral, but it seems hard toe ven get that now, and when you do waiting times have risen tenfold in 2 years.

Took us 4 1/2 years to get an ASD dx. I was told that they do not like to dx under the age of 5 years old, which was rubbish obviously. But i cant help thinking that they prolonged the process, ds was referred to paed after his 2 year check and didnt receive a dx until he was 6 1/2.

Now looking back i was refered to all the wrong 'experts' developmental paed's, the minute ds was refered to a paed with ASD knowledge, he received a dx within 6 months. Why didnt they just do that in the first place.

kungfu WRT to teh Shiney thing ultimately people do need to relaise that we are not one but many (SN aprents we) and we do come with different opinions, approaches, and we are at different places in a difficult process (I absolutely refuse to use the word journey, hate hate hate. Too long working for a cancer charity where people would try and talk about prognosis and we were supposed only to talk in terms of journey). POG is a true SN Warrior but as with any of us her views reflect her and her alone.

I quite agree about the disparity of views. I think the Holland poem has been quite an interesting illustration. Some people like it, some people loathe it. What does seem to come through in the comments about the poem is a sense of frustration that it is being sent by other people who are on the outside of the situation but somehow making assumptions about how the recipient should feel. Inevitably other people are going to be one step behind the person actually going through the situation, so it must be fairly galling to have someone send you some copied and pasted piece of writing they have fished off the Internet with a cheerful 'here, this is how you.should be feeling' message.

But I do feel that this thread is effectively asking for something of a unified approach, or perhaps more of a united front, against ignorance and spite. I would hope that many people will feel able to help provide that. But in those circumstances, perhaps those on the outside of the situation should be able to ask for a similar general approach to comments which have clearly been misunderstood, or which simply aren't driven by malice. It only needs one exchange like the one on this thread to put off less robust or confident posters from getting involved. It is inevitable that some people will question their own ability to get their point across without putting their foot in it.

It would be nice if more people were willing to make a stand against this sort of SN discrimination, and also if those directly affected by it would be ready to say 'hang on, slow down, I don't think that poster meant what she is being flamed for. Let's give her a chance to explain herself'.

Everyone is an individual, but where there is a clear common goal it is much easier if there are some common approaches and attitudes.

KungFu I know many of do try to do that- to get to the core intentions of a post rather than jump (some words should be zero tolerance though,can still be done nicely at first, i've been known to message someone and say that I relaise theya re new, welcome, hope they like it but might be worth a quiet aside that X word is not generall accepted on MN). However equally it is always worth people having it at the bacl of their heads that many SN parents- certainly not all- will be exhausted, have come fresh from a fight over quite basic things for their child, and be scared for tehir child's future. Something many of us share for example is a sense that we ultimately fail our children simply by being mortal. nastiness is not OK but being aware of certain poster's increased likelihood of vulnerability is a kindness I think most can give, and indeed generally do- a few seem to use as a toy though.

I think perhaps the way forward might be a lot of gentle nudges and reminders all round, whether that be 'you might want to rephrase that post' or 'that's not really acceptable, do you want to explain yourself?' or whether it is 'hang on, I don't think she meant that' or 'that was a genuine question, not a dig'.

And I think we can all spot the intentionally nasty stuff a mile off - no gentle nudges needed then!

Kungfupanda
I agree with you. I think the thread here reflects that other posters with sn children were quick to say that they disagreed with the way shiney was spoken to.

I have been banging on about this. It takes everyone involved in discussions to speak up when they see posts which strike them as attacking or unfair. Too many people keep quiet when the abuse/ insult etc etc comes from their side of the debate.

I think goblin is great. But I thought her comments were wrong and I said so. I don't think glossing over the fact that several posters jumped on the fuck off simmer at shiney helps because it perpetuates the idea that we all speak with one voice and if that happens the discussion becomes them and us.

I want the onky them and us to be the broad mn membership vs the deliberately vile and determinedly ignorant.

Yes that

and what lenin says

If I want the really vle I will go on the Yahoo news site and post there. Made that mistake once

WRT to asking for explanations yes that helps a lot; on a parallel thread I asked for a definition of professionally sensitive before jumping. Just easier. Mind I got screamed at for that once, I asked someone if she had really meant X and Y and was accused of stirring so.....

I didn't relaise all this went on until I saw this thread and others. I guess I've just never clicked on the contentious threads. I'm appalled that people can be so vile and with what posters have had to put up with. Count me in with my suuport.

Could we maybe have some sort of yellow card system?

So someone posts something ignorant/offensive, gets reported. MNHQ considers it not offensive enough to delete, we have to engage and educate...

But could that poster get a warning saying, 'your post has been reported, play nicely' or somesuch; and after X number of warnings they get a ban for a certain time. Would allow for innocent mistakes, but not repeated trolling.

OTOH, the warnings would have to be at MNHQ's discretion though (otherwise the MRA trolls would just report all of dittany's posts etc etc) so more work for them. But a possible solution?

In fairness I am cetain through people I know that the yellow card system operates informally as it is. Not sure how often it progresses to ban though, they are very rare indeed.

I think MN should treat disability discrimination exactly the same as racism, vile nasty comments should be deleted, but still allow room for debating and asking questions. So i suppose ignorant should remain, offensive should be deleted.

I remember a thread that was started a while ago about ADHD being due to bad parenting, the person who started the thread had actually read this and had research which backed up his/her idea. He/she was then given research and personal experiences which proved the opposite.

Claw I remember that thread IIRC she was quite adamant she was right despite being given loads of proof of being wrong.

Thanks Starlight for your very moving story, I totally agree with you and understand somewhat where you are coming from, though my situation is different as dd sn is different. Sorry my post is short I'm on my I phone.