to think MNHQ should not be deleting posts in this way? WARNING: Ranty

[doublestandard]

So, having a post deleted is a MN rite of passage and all that, but I think MNHQ have got a bit trigger happy with the delete button of late but not in a good way. And yes this is a bit thread about a thread but I think it's a general problem and worth discussing.

As an example, I have recently had a post from AIBU deleted because I said the manner in which a poster had disregarded others opinions was "flaming arrogant" and that "You have come across on this thread as a self-important, judgey know-it-all". Apparently this constitutes a personal attack?? Since when have we not been allowed to say that a specific post on a thread suggests arrogance? Or that a poster is coming across in a certain way? It is not saying the poster is arrogant or a self-important, judgey know-it-all but that is how they are being perceived.

Now ordinarily I'd shrug this off but I'm seeing more and more posters crying "personal attack!" when disagreed with and then having posts that seem to me to be quite reasonable deleted. I am also baffled that MNHQ have decided that it is not a personal attack to leave up comments by another poster stating that I condone child abuse (I mean what the actual fuck?!) when I have said nothing of the kind and because my post above is deleted people can't make up their own minds. Either delete both or delete neither surely?

I think most people on MN employ an attack the posts, not the poster as a rule. Yes, it is a bit more blunt on AIBU than relationships or behaviour and development for example, and I think that's right, but I find the nannying attitude and selective decisions not to be in the spirit of MN.

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Disclaimers

I have namechanged because I don't want to draw any more attention to the thread where MNHQ sees fit to allow a post to stand that falsely states I support the abuse of children. I suspect a few people may recognise me and/or the thread so I'd prefer not to be outed thanks.

In the interests of fairness there was another part of my post that MNHQ felt could be interpreted as "giving the finger". It was actually nothing of the kind - it was a reference to being part of a particular organisation and then a flounce - but I can see how someone might have interpreted it as that even if I don't agree. Fair enough to decide to take it down, but why leave up a libellous post stating a poster condones child abuse when the orginal post is not there to be judged?

I have raised this with MNHQ and the second paragraph draws on their email response.

Well Peachy, you don't have to defend your boy on an internet site againts loads of randoms. I doubt it helps at all to be honest. But I can understand that heavy mumsnet usage makes you think that it is very important to do so. It isn't really, because it doesn't matter what anyone thinks except your family and close real life friends.

Well I think it does help to be honest, judhing by the amount of pwoplw ho say they didn't realise that X and Y ws the case and are now more understanding. But it's not true either that it only matters what family and close friends think, not when their lives are so affected by sate policy and the like.

But neitehr is my MN use so heay these days- well yes the apst 2 days but many days I do not come on any more. Just depends what mood I am in.

I am a campaigner by nature; I now that to be true. I kinda like it that way. I do think it has effects as well.

I( i have no idea about he Sn thing that has been going on)
for eg, thread yest about 911 where i was stuff.
the point was missed. people decided to say that the OP didnt care about 9 11.

the issue was about remembering where you were. Could have been discussed WHY people do this " I was in a shop" business.
Instead hysterical grief tourists wanted it deleted!

Missed that enirely so can't comment ireally. Does ound ott but without ebing there...

YY ireallyagreewithyou... so many posters just missed the point completely and it all got quite aggressive and unnecessary.

I did read that 9/11 thread as well, and yes so many people just missed the point.
I wish people would read a thread properly before jumping in like that.

Peachy - MRA = Men's Rights Activists, but it's also shorthand for the sort of bloke who spends all of his free time actively seeking out feminist spaces just so he can turn up and tell us that we are Wrongity Wrong.

The thing about hide poster is, it's very rare that someone will use it unless they're repeatedly encountering a poster who just says the same offensive things over and over. There are posters who, for example, turn up on every rape thread in Feminism just to say the same anti-feminist things. There are posters who seek out every discussion about politics to talk about benefit cheats. Etc. It's those repetitive posters that most of us pro-hiders want to hide. It wouldn't stifle a general discussion with opposing views, it would just allow some of the people in the discussion to skim over That One Poster who keeps saying the same thing over and over and derailing the conversation.

It's not censorship to choose not to listen to someone. In real life, you can walk away, avoid someone, etc. On an internet forum, it's very hard to make your eyes recognise a poster's name and then skip the post.

Incidentally, I'm on record as being very grateful that Peachy and other mums of SN children do what they do. Because it could happen to my family as well, and this way I'm a little more prepared. And because although I already knew the basics, I have learned more about the specific ways in which different SNs play out. And now, if I'm in a group where someone else says something disabilist, I'm in a better position to correct them.

Of course it matters what people outside one's immediate family and friends think. It's the weight of public opinion that gets theme parks to put in suitable accommodations, or - as happened in my area a couple of years ago - elect their first politician who used a wheelchair and thus finally forced Parliament to install a wheelchair ramp to the debate chamber, or even just tells some 'you're not disabled you're just fat' fucker to shut the fuck up.

Right i've seen the rape prats but I did not know they were linked.

Tprtoise YY to the hide poster being used by people rarely but if a few particularly fighty people who press my buttons choose to block me so be it. A great thing IMO. And thanks for that post. TBH it's simple for me; I know my ASD well- I would, i'm doing a blinkin MA in it- and I woudl rather accurate information gets out there rather than the rubbish spouted by some. And equally it's not unusual that on this sort of thread someone will approach me for information, either for their own family or for work etc, and I am blessed that I have that to give them. it happens a couple fo times a month so is definitely not rare.

And yes- without exception (thogh with wariness in one or two cases, nobody ehre) if anyone ever finds that against all expectation tehy need to work with suspected disability, DLA, etc then I hope my name comes up and they approach me for help.

I used to be in a position where I could do that in a paid capacity; am not atm but still enjoy it.

I would hide all the people who love "bunfights", as they so endearingly call them, and who - perhaps unsurprisingly - seem unable to read an OP and understand/make sense of it. They are the same people, over and over again, so not difficult to do.

OOh now I'm up for a debate but I hate bunfights.

if it comes in I'll have to search you, see how I rank

But why? Bunfights can be very much fun as long as they're good-natured. I've seen (and been involved) in many with some hugely witty posters who take a ribbing and flaming themselves for their views - but in a fun, not spiteful manner.

What you can't escape is that AIBU has heavy traffic. It's not because some threads are 'wrongly placed', the OPs of those threads choose to put them in AIBU because of the traffic. The reason why AIBU is high-traffic is that it's fun, it's interesting to read and if people want to chill out in their leisure time, that's what they want; it's why I post here anyway. I know where the serious boards are, so does everybody else.

I do think some posters are overly sensitive and I wonder why they're on AIBU. Most people know that it's a 'non-serious' part of MN and reading a few threads would certainly confirm that, so why not post on the specific board topics where people post differently? I post on Relationships sometimes, I wouldn't dream of being flippant there but I will post flippantly on AIBU.

I think MNHQ should draft a disclaimer for AIBU... 'Not for sensitive little lillies'... tick box to enter site.

See, Peachy, there are people who don't like debates, because they are boring, so they turn them into "bunfights" which give them an adrenaline rush and make them feel alive.

I am up for learning about ASD from you and others, so you are the last person I would hide. Also it's pretty clear that you both read and understand what I write.

I don't object to people doing whatever they like on AIBU. But I don't think the bunfighters should invade threads on sensitive personal issues started in General Health, for example.

I rest my case re "sensitive little lillies".

moronicatatonic... I'm only talking about AIBU, not the other boards at all. I think that posters should take responsibility for the threads they choose to start on AIBU, knowing that it's a light-hearted board.

I absolutely agree about the other boards - off limits for bunfights and invasions.

Lying I suspect you and I define bunfight differently. I link it with vitriol and pitchforks.

And YY to satrting threads in AIBU but I think most of the ones people are jumping on are not those who started them but came later: I only start a thread in AIBU if I am willing to be told I am a tosser. But when someone else starts an AIBU with something nasty (I don't think DP is here any more so referring to her upsets nobody- the threads she did about being upset there were kids in her school with SN as an example) then someone comes along and posts the realit- well if they then get jumped on and upset they are not the ones who started it but equally it's IMO morally wrong to walk away and let crap stand when you have the key to the facts. So you get stuck between beinga ccused of being a sensitive little whatever or being untrue to yourself. The OP in AIBU deserves a level of YABU certainly if deserved; but others need to retain some leel of safety.

Although it seems that most threads in AIBU are about as controversial as 'AIBU to ask Dh to buy a pint of milk when he happens to stroll apst the milk shop with the correct money whilst thinking to himself how mjuch he woudl like to buy some milk'.

Moronic (really, si that what you want shortening to? ) I try to read and understand what people say. Sometimes I get it wrong adn I try to elarn from my trigger points- eg drop off with ds4 at nursery is a little ahrsh atm so I don't post for a bit after as I know I need a cuppa first- but I think most people are the same.

I like a lighthearted bunfight- I don't think MN would be that appealing if it was all about serious debate and accurate well-researched informative posts. I start to glaze over after a while- it's just not why I come here.

Tortoise - I thought MRA was male rape apologists, thanks for putting me straight on that!

Lying - do you seriously think that AIBU is a "light-hearted board" considering the bashing that most people get on it? I know that it's not the place for sensitive subjects, but for me, light-hearted means having a laugh - and there are precious few of those on most AIBU threads that I've seen. Some are good - but mostly, bunfights, often of the nastiest kind.

LeBOF- absolutely. A light hearted bunfight is a joy; a nasty pile in, whilst often labelled a bunfight, is not.

Pass me a goat there's a love.

Peachy... Yes, I think you're right, we do. So when I talk of bunfights, it's with my rose-coloured specs on and when you talk of them, it's vastly different. I wouldn't like the ones that you're talking of, but you'd possibly like the ones in my head.

LeBOF... YY, me too. It's a distraction for me, not my sum total of leisure time.

Thumbwitch... I don't know that I agree with you because I don't see the threads in the same way, perhaps? When I first posted on AIBU it was more about the daft things that posters did, wanting validation, and they were the people involved. Now it seems to have moved onto picking holes in other people, scooping up whole segments of the population at the same time - and some circumstances are just not funny. The original board as I remember it, was.

Really though, if I felt so sore about AIBU, I just wouldn't read it and I wouldn't post on it. My time's precious to me. There are posters that I really like so much here and I enjoy reading their posts and that's why I'm here.

I also think that MANY, MANY people actually do enjoy a 'ruck'. They don't admit it but those threads get a bigger readership and number of posts than any other.... draw your own conclusions from that.

I don't often go on the serious threads, I prefer the light hearted ones.
That's my way of MNing. I'll sometimes go on the news one but that is as serious as I want to get.
An AIBU bun fight can be fun.
The goat one is a case in point, a thread totally derailed by wit and humour though it initially started as a benefits bashing one, and could have got nasty.