to think MNHQ should not be deleting posts in this way? WARNING: Ranty

[doublestandard]

So, having a post deleted is a MN rite of passage and all that, but I think MNHQ have got a bit trigger happy with the delete button of late but not in a good way. And yes this is a bit thread about a thread but I think it's a general problem and worth discussing.

As an example, I have recently had a post from AIBU deleted because I said the manner in which a poster had disregarded others opinions was "flaming arrogant" and that "You have come across on this thread as a self-important, judgey know-it-all". Apparently this constitutes a personal attack?? Since when have we not been allowed to say that a specific post on a thread suggests arrogance? Or that a poster is coming across in a certain way? It is not saying the poster is arrogant or a self-important, judgey know-it-all but that is how they are being perceived.

Now ordinarily I'd shrug this off but I'm seeing more and more posters crying "personal attack!" when disagreed with and then having posts that seem to me to be quite reasonable deleted. I am also baffled that MNHQ have decided that it is not a personal attack to leave up comments by another poster stating that I condone child abuse (I mean what the actual fuck?!) when I have said nothing of the kind and because my post above is deleted people can't make up their own minds. Either delete both or delete neither surely?

I think most people on MN employ an attack the posts, not the poster as a rule. Yes, it is a bit more blunt on AIBU than relationships or behaviour and development for example, and I think that's right, but I find the nannying attitude and selective decisions not to be in the spirit of MN.

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Disclaimers

I have namechanged because I don't want to draw any more attention to the thread where MNHQ sees fit to allow a post to stand that falsely states I support the abuse of children. I suspect a few people may recognise me and/or the thread so I'd prefer not to be outed thanks.

In the interests of fairness there was another part of my post that MNHQ felt could be interpreted as "giving the finger". It was actually nothing of the kind - it was a reference to being part of a particular organisation and then a flounce - but I can see how someone might have interpreted it as that even if I don't agree. Fair enough to decide to take it down, but why leave up a libellous post stating a poster condones child abuse when the orginal post is not there to be judged?

I have raised this with MNHQ and the second paragraph draws on their email response.

If someone said to me "You have come across on this thread as a self-important, judgey know-it-all" I wouldn't take it as a personal attack, nor would I be offended if someone called me it on FB, I would think "maybe I have been" if someone said "you are a self-important, judgey know-it-all" that would be a personal attack.

If someone said to me "You have come across on this thread as a self-important, judgey know-it-all" I wouldn't take it as a personal attack, nor would I be offended if someone called me it on FB, I would think "maybe I have been" if someone said "you are a self-important, judgey know-it-all" that would be a personal attack.

Lenin, its a fair point, and there have been times when I have been under attack and just wished I could hide them. I was totally opposed. Now I'm on the fence.

Well Snaz personally I may well have become institutionalised.

That does not mean i would happily type it though; I am aware I can be ushed into reaction but have taken steps to reduce that and always been when my kids ot I have been under sustained or multi pronged attack .

Wholly WRT to the ASD me too- AS / HFA simply wasn't picked up in schools until late 90s at best. And as ASD is often genetic that's not going to be a rarity in any environment frequented by Sn kids. Indeed we had a lecture on Bettelheim at uni and one of the reasons now accepted for his theories is that many of the aprents he was dealing with were not cold just either exhausted or at the high end of the spectrum themselves.

California has a big issue with this, due to places like California (increase in asd after allowing for other factors has risen from 9 to 40+%): people marry people with traits they see in themselves which in a place full of computer types and intellectuals seems to mean 'assortative mating' may be causing a rise in ASD diagnoses in the children. here

And YY like Lissie I would hope to consider my posts on receipt of that criticism rather than automatically report.

I am far from perfect and others will sometimes call me on it. I might not like that but it doesn't mean it's wrong. How much I accept it depends on the poster who typed it and how sanctimonious I have managed to become on a thread (self awareness being all )

moranica excellent point.

Ah whatme maybe I am that; in my defnce I studied world religion and now autism so have spent a lot of time having to learn what words I can and can't use just to get grades. It may well be ingrained. however in the context of Sn I am ds3's voice and I know ds1 hates a lot of the crap on here so I have therefore the right to be offended (and not being black or gay does not mean I like racist homophobic crap or am willing to let it slip). Just who I am I guess.

Peachy, exactly. I get it wrong. I change my mind mid-thread if someone makes a compelling argument and am happy to admit I'm wrong. I can become quite blinkered around fertility issues and can be very blunt with posters who moan that its taken 2 months, its so frustrating. I need other posters to pull me up on that. I need to be told that I'm wrong sometimes because I can't always see it. And I'm a big girl, I can take it. Its a shame that some others can't.

Agrees with Lenin about a 'hide poster' function. It's easy to swerve boards/threads but not so easy to 'not read' a post in a thread you're reading.

I can't see how MNHQ can make this board 'fit' to everybody's specification, really I can't? Some people swear a lot and some people don't like it at all, some people find some words 'ok', some people don't like them... it's all really subjective and finding a common ground isn't going to work.

Somebody, somewhere, is going to be offended by something. Posts aren't always personal, mostly other posters don't know everything about the posters they chat alongside of. Obvious personal attacks should be stopped, of course they should, but some posters just have thinner skin and cry 'foul' more often than others would, I think most of us know some of those. How are MNHQ supposed to regulate that?

It's supposed to be a chatboard for adults and ignoring a nasty poster is, I find, quite effective. I personally don't want to be 'sanitised, cosseted and protected' here... it's a chatboard and AIBU is less serious, or should be, than the other sections of the board. The post deletions should be for serious stuff if they have to be there - and a deletion perhaps accompanied by a 'holiday' from the board... or maybe shut it down altogether?

I'm getting fucked off with all the deletions as well - it's been particularly grim in Feminism, where all the needledick MRA trolls have had their posts left standing while anyone telling them to fuck off, disagreeing with them or even asking them if they are men gets deleted.

I'm on benefits again, and often see rather vile posts, I suppose directed at me and my circumstances, but personally I don't give a shit.
I can give as good as I get to benefit bashers, and would prefer their posts stood.
Bring it on .

Yy Lying

It can never happen but it'd be fun to know who presses reprot most! I imagine I am suspected of being a top runner; in fact not so. Too busy getting embroiled usually. I am most likely to report attacks on other people. Actually i think most people are, and I think when that happens it's a fair measure things have gone bad.

That's great ladybeagle but others aren't so strong or might have ended up tehre for really very sad reasons such as loss of a child or spouse; we need to condier how it affects all posters. but absolutely most attcaks should be left to stand. MNHQ are not stupid; they can tell if a certain poster is repeatedly targeted, it's not ahrd espeically if like them you can't read everything and just see reports flagging up with the same faces.

SGB who are MRA? Sorry, whilst I am intersted in feminism it sort of gets pushed off the agenda a bit.

Lissie - I actively hide ALL threads which you are on (except this one of course).

I think we should have a c-word smiley! (Yep, lame I know but I really, really can't bring myself to even type that word, although I find some of usages of it on MN most entertaining. :))

Having recently returned to mumsnet after a long break, I can say with some confidence that the way people talk to each other here IS quite aggressive. You get used to it when you are here a lot and probably end up joining in with it but a break really shows you just how heated and aggressive it can be! I even think calling someone a 'silly cow' is unnecessary and just NOT how people behave in real life! Mumsnet is great but those who are defending the right to aggression/personal attacks should take a long hard look at themselves - it is not good for ANYONE to get into this kind of habit, even 'online' where you cannot see or know anyone for real.

i had a thread moaning about something and people came onto MY thread to tell me to hide the threads i was moaning about

then ask me to get my thread deleted

that was a bit weird

#takeyourownadvice

and agree with snazaroo

people cant jsut disagree; they are Professionally Outraged

a mate of mine looked at mn and said why are htey all so ANGRY all the time?

I don;t think anyone is defending a right to aggression snaz, not me anyway: more trying to understand why it ahppens and also trying to work out what we can legislate against and not.

Personally I know that hide threads would be a massive help when I am entrenched in a debate and can't stop scratching the itch.

Talking of SN issues, I really don't have any experience of them but I recall a thread a few weeks ago and was clumsily answering a point from another poster and subsequently posting to Pagwatch on a term that I'd used as a teen, without thought, it was very offensive although without meaning it to be. It was a good discussion and I picked up information from Pag who was very patient.

I remember another thread that was about one specific topic and I answered the OP's question only for what I'd said to be pounced on by other posters who joined in later, talking of their own experiences. If I'd posted later and seen the latter posters' views, I wouldn't have posted at all. It wasn't that my post was 'wrong', just that the audience was 'damaged' and my post hit a raw spot. It's all too easy to do that, just in sharing an opinion.

It must be difficult, when you have a particular interest in a topic, for whatever reason, to hear incorrect or thoughtless viewpoints. I'd say that the vast majority of posters here don't mean to be thoughtless and insensitive - I certainly don't - and a quick prod/heads-up to a blundering poster could perhaps be helpful. Some posters, perhaps feeling 'got at', on either side, fly into a rage and it all ends up in a massive, unnecessary spat.

yes a friend of mine said she had looked around the site and thought it was 'horrible'!

I think if you don't get drawn in it can be OK and very helpful.

I think removing all personal attacks is good legislation as it stands. And being called a 'silly cow' is a personal attack. It isn't rocket science

hide posters sorry

there are names now that make me bridle: I KNOW they ahte me, that they think I am scum. I just don't want to see them.

ireallyagree can you define professinallyoutraged for me ? for me that term always sounds as if people are just trying to dismiss anyone elses concerns. 'I really don't like use fo X' ''oh you are just professionally outraged'.

Snaz not being drawn in means not defending my boy's right to support / eduation / a home.

I can't do that.

We need to differentiate between AIBU where IMO a lot more dissension is (IMO) a requirement, whereas the specialist support sections should be far kinder.

Lying an't answer for others but the peope who I get riled at are in general repeat offenders

I do try and be nice to anyone else. Ia ctually welll remember being similarly hauled up by a poster for a similar mistake in anohter field and how mortifying it was so that feeds my stance.

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