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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To not care that two thirds of schools are flouting the law

85 replies

Mitmoo · 06/09/2011 07:45

ON R5Live now, it is being discussed that the law says that collective Christian worship should happen every day at school but two thirds of schools aren't doing it.

I really don't care, the law is wrong, why are they interfering?

AIBU not to care?

OP posts:

GypsyMoth · 06/09/2011 07:47

You don't care? Makes you wonder what else they aren't doing which they should be!!

Himalaya · 06/09/2011 07:48

No you are not, the law should be scrapped.

mycatoscar · 06/09/2011 07:49

really?

I have never been in a school where they didnt have assembly or similar every day.

Al0uiseG · 06/09/2011 07:50

It's a law which is a sop to the CofE. Religious worship should have no place in education.

RustyBear · 06/09/2011 07:52

Lots of schools have assembly every day, but don't necessarily include an act of Christian worship.

Himalaya · 06/09/2011 07:52

I think the distinction is whether they have assembly, or whether in involves Christian worship.

Original poster

Mitmoo · 06/09/2011 07:54

It's the religious element that is being dropped mycatoscar by two thirds of schools not the assemblies themselves.

If I want my child to have a religious upbringing, I'll take them to church on a Sunday and get them into a Catholic/CofE school where worship will happen.

There's no need for a law to make all children have a Christian element to their assemblies IMHO anyway.

OP posts:

BoattoBolivia · 06/09/2011 07:59

Yanbu. As an atheist teacher, I resent having to lead prayers in a supposedly secular primary school. I am very happy to teach RE lessons as I think it is very important for children to learn about different cultures and religions. This need is always emphasised when we book trips to mosques/ synagogues/ churches/ temples as part of an RE topic. Parents never object to a visit to a church, but Ialways have a few who won't let their children visit the others, even when we explain that there is no praying or indoctrination involved!

Every school that I have worked in has regularly broken the law on the subject of Christian assemblies.

Groovee · 06/09/2011 08:25

My children go to a Non Denominational school so they don't affilate to any particular church but many of the ministers do come in and chat to them. Their assembly is very across the board with various pop songs etc. The only religious time I see is Easter and Christmas.

EdithWeston · 06/09/2011 08:34

Fortunately, the beliefs of the Church of England are now so watered down, that you can have totally God-free assemblies and they woul still fall squarely into the definition as prescribed by law.

If two-thirds of schools are not following the law by not holding assemblies, I am concerned. Assemblies are an important statement of community and values, and it must be very much harder to maintain the ethos of the school across the school if there are no such frequent congregations. I would find that off-putting, and would worry - not just about the school's attitude to keeping rules - but importantly about the wider ethos, pastoral component, and sense of community.

seeker · 06/09/2011 08:38

The education act only says that 51% of assemblies should be " broadly Christian in nature" Not a lot of people know that. I wish my ds's school bloody did. And I wish it was one of the schools that are breaking the law!

maristella · 06/09/2011 08:48

YANBU my DS' CofE primary school terrified him with some of their 'teachings'

DS is now an atheist just like his mumma

StrandedBear · 06/09/2011 08:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Firawla · 06/09/2011 08:57

yanbu, i think that law should be taken off. its outdated as most people in uk are not practising christians these days, and many people chose non denominational schools cos they don't want the children taught christianity. there's plenty of c of e schools were that can all be done. i have nothing against them mentioning religion or teaching re but they should not be doing collective worship in assemblies presuming that the children are all following the same religion and wish to worship in that way

festi · 06/09/2011 08:59

just wondered how many of you who are totaly against christian worship will be accepting and exchanging christmas presents?

honestly the law also states all public transport ie taxis should carry a bale of hey and dont, does this law also out rage you?

tyler80 · 06/09/2011 09:06

Our school had no facilities to hold whole school assemblies, religious or not so it didn't,

Scaredycat3000 · 06/09/2011 09:09

Festi I would love to stop 'celebrating Christmas'. I don't enjoy it. As there has always been a celebration in the middle of winter for peoples moral, pre Christian, in fact the date we have Christmas was hijacked from a pagan festival. Besides it would be very difficult now with DC.
I do however not want to celebrate Mothering Sunday as that only affects me and is Christian. If only my DP would believe me.

SardineQueen · 06/09/2011 09:30

Erm festi lots of schools have a very mixed intake of children from a range of ethnicities and religions. People who do not celebrate christmas.

How shortsighted to imagine that everyone at a school in England (Britain?) celebrates christmas.

And before the response is "well if they don't like it they can opt out" - really? So a large number of students should have a choice between practicing a religion that is not their own, or not taking part in the schools vital daily communal gathering.

Remove this stipulation from the rulebook.

seeker · 06/09/2011 09:33

Festival, your post is so stupid that it isn't worth a reply. If yous top and think for two minutes you will see why.

Oh, and it's not true about the bale of hay eithr.

monoid · 06/09/2011 09:37

My dd goes to a school that prides itself on its multiculturalism... and she has to pray everyday dd told me that she didn't want to pray, so I said that as long as she sits quietly, doesn't disturb anyone else and is respectful of other children's decisions and beliefs, then she doesn't have to.
I think it is a bit odd to pray to a Christian God in a school where there are children from many different religions/cultures attending the school. I do think that they should learn about Christianity, but the praying annoys me as it is actively partaking in a religion. And there is an expectation that the children should be doing it.
festi - I think that Christmas and Easter are as much a cultural norm/traditional celebration in this country as they are a Christian celebration.

Himalaya · 06/09/2011 09:43

Strandedbear - the thing is, as it stands, in the UK there are no non-religious state schools.

There are only schools where the Head and the Governors are willing to ignore the law that says they are meant to be running schools of a broadly Christian nature. Good on them I say, but it is a crummy situation.

SardineQueen · 06/09/2011 09:51

For info for people on the thread, if a school has a majority of children of a religion other than christianity, they can apply to have the daily act of worship changed from christian to whatever is suitable for their school.

They still have to have a religious act though AFAIK - I wonder if a school could show it was predominantly athiest whether they could opt out entirely?

SardineQueen · 06/09/2011 09:54

I also don't know what happens with free schools, given that they don't have to adhere to many of the rules that existing state schools do. Of course many of them are religious schools anyway.

SardineQueen · 06/09/2011 09:55

So if a school is eg 80% jewish they can apply to change to jewish worship every morning.

mummytime · 06/09/2011 10:05

I think you will find this varies a lot between Primary and Secondary schools, and always did. The further up secondary school I went the fewer assemblies we had and even fewer were "broadly religious".
Collective can mean anything from "as a form group" to "as a large group eg. year or house", to "whole school". Most secondaries cannot physically get the whole school together.
However you could also argue that most PSHE teaching actually covers religious teaching, as it involves collective consideration of issues such as: bullying, refugees etc.

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