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AIBU?

To not care that two thirds of schools are flouting the law

85 replies

Mitmoo · 06/09/2011 07:45

ON R5Live now, it is being discussed that the law says that collective Christian worship should happen every day at school but two thirds of schools aren't doing it.

I really don't care, the law is wrong, why are they interfering?

AIBU not to care?

OP posts:

Report

Mitmoo · 07/09/2011 05:49

2rebecca I have no problem with faith schools, parents of children who have a faith pay their taxes too. The churches partly subsidise these schools so they save the taxpayers money.

For me it is about choice. If I send my child to a faith school they'll be taught a faith, parents choice.

But if I send them to a non faith school, they shouldn't e expected to participate in Christian worship, if parents wanted that they'd send them to a faith school.

OP posts:

minimisschief · 07/09/2011 02:07

I think the christmas thing is a rather crap argument tbh. How many non religous people celebrate christmas as a religous occasion. Answer is none, they celebrate the holiday and father christmas and the giving of gifts. Just because it is also a christian holiday doesn't mean that atheists do not see it as a different holiday. Besides it wasn't originally a christian holiday to start with

2rebecca · 06/09/2011 23:30

I don't think religious schools should be state funded. I have no desire for my taxes to be spent brainwashing children to believe in myths and legends. RE should be taught as an intersting array of myths and legends that people have believed through the ages and some continue to believe in with no 1 religion given more credence than any other.

SardineQueen · 06/09/2011 19:27

According to a quick google the law about straw was repealed in 1976.

So it's a rubbish point, which is not even right.

SardineQueen · 06/09/2011 19:20

?

The rule about having communal daily worship that is broadly christian in nature affects a lot of people, every day.

Taxi drivers not having bales of hay does not.

Do you have a link to the law? I could do with a laugh

magicmelons · 06/09/2011 19:14

Taxi drivers: British taxi drivers must, by law carry a shovel and a bale of hay in the back of their hackney cab. I don't suppose this is appropriate any more but its still a Law, should we enforce it?

SardineQueen · 06/09/2011 19:12

It's not central london, it's a north london borough

My borough has over 300,000 people in it. That's more than 1 in every 200 people in the country. And I'm sure other boroughs have similar problems as I have read about it on here. So not that unusual, at all.

I'm not sure what you're arguing about. You started off saying that taking religion out of state schools was a very bad thing, then blamed the existence of religious schools on tony blair for some reason, then said it was some specific sorts of religious schools you didn't like that TBH I haven't heard of, and I don't understand how your dislike of religious schools ties in with your statement that taking religion out of schools is a bad thing.

I'm having trouble working out what it is that you are saying?
And why does it matter if some areas of the country have faith schools which are 100% of that faith - what difference does it make to anything?

meditrina · 06/09/2011 19:06

Insomnia11: I'm curious - which legislation has been watered down?

The C of E may be an established church, but it's tenets have been diluted to the point of total wishy-washy-ness, such that they don't seem to have any political force at all; and there isn't really another voice - or have I missed something?

TalkinPeace2 · 06/09/2011 18:52

Sardine
the thing is that your area - central london presumably - is VERY VERY unusual

Insomnia11 · 06/09/2011 17:38

I feel quite strongly about this. I think the law should be revised so that NO school is allowed to teach religion as fact. I think there should be no official religion in this country, and there should be no bishops in the house of lords.

I don't think there should be any such thing as faith schools either. All education should be secular. No RE lessons, but religion AND philosophy lessons. Always to be taught in a "Some people believe this" way. If people want their kids to follow a particular religion then they can go to church/Sunday school/mosque etc in their own time.

I'm all for freedom to practise religion, and wearing of religious articles within reason, but I don't want religions to have ANY say in running this country or about what children are taught.

I'm agnostic rather than atheist and was ambivalent about the whole issue until recently several pieces of important legislation were watered down in the UK because of pressure from religious groups. Also having seen the rise and influence of the Christian right (should be oxymoronic, but never mind) in the US I don't want that spreading over here.

I think school assemblies are quite a good thing. But they shouldn't be for saying prayers, Bible readings and singing hymns.

Why doesn't this Govt at least revise the legislation to at least allow schools to do what they want in this regard, taking into account the views of parents, teachers and governors? It would be a step in the right direction. No point having a law if it isn't enforced or wanted. It's hopelessly out of date.

SardineQueen · 06/09/2011 17:33

I know that's why I corrected immediately! Realised I had missed out quite a fundamental part of what I was saying!

begonyabampot · 06/09/2011 17:31

Was just that your first post read like you were stating a fact but now explained.

SardineQueen · 06/09/2011 17:27

begony in our area most schools are heavily oversubscribed, and when they are faith schools, they are oversubscribed with people of that faith.

So the CofE schools are full of people who are CofE and meet the standard of religious adherence required by the school, the RC schools are full of people who are RC and meet the standard of religious adherence required by the school, the Jewish schools are full of people who are Jewish and and meet the standard of religious adherence required by the school.

If there were not enough people of the "right" religion to fill teh school, then others would obviously be accepted. However in this area, it is more usual for people who do meet the religious criteria to be turned down due to over-subscription from others of the same faith (it usually defaults to distance from teh school after that).

So if you want to get into one of the RC schools you have to 1. get your child baptised PDQ 2. Go to mass every week AND 3. Live near to the school and possibly 4. any other requirements the school might have like having to be baptised within a certain timeframe from birth etc

picnicbasketcase · 06/09/2011 17:23

I'm all for assembly to be used for giving out information and encouraging the community aspect of a school, but if it's not a faith school, it shouldn't have to have any religious content. My DC's school does, but I suspect that it's because the HT is Christian. I bet a lot of it does depend upon the personal beliefs of the staff.

SardineQueen · 06/09/2011 17:20

Sorry was quoting myself there. The bit you are all quoting back at me, I corrected in my next post by saying I had missed out around here. They are like that around here.

SardineQueen · 06/09/2011 17:18

Blimey does no-one read the posts any more?!!

The CofE and Catholic schools are 100% made up of people of that faith. As are the Jewish schools.

I am not sure what your point is, can you explain a bit more?
Add message | Report | Message poster SardineQueen Tue 06-Sep-11 14:25:43
Gawd missed "around here" in that post! The schools around here are like that ^

The religious schools around here are 100% of that religion. I know that is not the case in all parts of the country, but it is around here. I am not sure how this fact always causes such consternation on MN!

begonyabampot · 06/09/2011 16:52

Sardine I don't understand you, anyone can goto a catholic school, you don't have to be catholic though it might help it is oversubscribed.

aldiwhore · 06/09/2011 16:38

A state funded, non denominational school imo, should not pledge allegiance to one religion or another (I'd prefer it if religion was not part of state school at all in any way other than to inform about people's beliefs in general).

I don't care either, op, YANBU.

As far as my sons' school is concerned, the daily singing of 'The Golden COCKrel' and the saying of grace hasn't harmed my kids though, neither did it harm me, and any Christian stories are usually more or less in line with my own ideals.... the New Testament parables are preferred at my sons' school and I'm happy with that. They avoid Genesis, I'd have an issue if they taught it as fact.

TalkinPeace2 · 06/09/2011 16:31

Oasis may be good at helping people but they are making a right pigs ear of running the two schools they took over round here

mummytime · 06/09/2011 16:09

Okay sorry but...I can understand peoples problems with Emmanuel, but what is the problem with Oasis. I know that they are not creationist (well Steve Chalke certainly isn't), and they do a lot of good work with people of other faiths, eg. my niece worked for them for a while working with refugee young people (mainly Somali I think).

malinois · 06/09/2011 16:04

SardineQueen -

The CofE and Catholic schools are 100% made up of people of that faith. As are the Jewish schools.

Not here they aren't.. The vast majority of primary schools in rural areas are CofE - there is generally no choice at all. However, contrary to popular beliefs we do actually have Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Hindus and people of no faith at all living out here in the sticks - they all send their kids to the village CofE primary.

BeyondTheLimitsOfAcceptability · 06/09/2011 15:58

I went to a CofW primary and had wholly religious assemblies with hymns, prayers and frequent visits from the vicar. I decided at about the age of 8 that I didnt believe in it all and was told I could sit quietly in assembly and that I didnt have to pray.

Then at a state (non-religious) high school, we were FORCED to pray every day. I got into trouble for saying I didnt want to!!

whackamole · 06/09/2011 15:48

We never had a religious assembly at my school. We did RE but that was it. And we had assembly all the time but just as a way of giving out info really.

Don't really understand why it's obligatory really. Unless the school is a C of E or Catholic school.

TalkinPeace2 · 06/09/2011 15:44

The CofE and Catholic schools are 100% made up of people of that faith. As are the Jewish schools.
just not true

having CofE outside the door of a school does NOT make it comparable with an Oasis or Emmanuel school and THEY are my bugbear

SardineQueen · 06/09/2011 15:13

Yes really.

The schools all have a requirement to take children of other faiths if not enough children of the "right" faiths apply. That goes for CoFE, Catholic, Jewish, whatever. They could not stop children of different religions going if they had unfilled spaces. The children would be allocated through the usual allocation process.

I am still not sure what your point is though.

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