To not care that two thirds of schools are flouting the law

[Mitmoo]

ON R5Live now, it is being discussed that the law says that collective Christian worship should happen every day at school but two thirds of schools aren't doing it.

I really don't care, the law is wrong, why are they interfering?

AIBU not to care?

[Empusa]

YANBU Children should be taught about other religions, but there is no good reason for them to be involved in any kind of collective worship.

[cloudpuff]

dd (y2) learns about different religions at school but they also do christian hymns and prayers weekly and I think maybe daily prayers in class.They have regular visits from the local vicar.Its not a CofE school.
It's never been a problem for me until recently as dd now thinks everyone should believe in god and I've had a bit of a hard time explaining some people don't believe in anything and that there is nothing wrong with that but she thinks the teacher is always right.

[Mitmoo]

I actually think it can be very dangerous to have people who don't understand the depth and complexities of a religious belief being forced to teach children about religion.

How can they hope to answer their questions when they don't understanding it themselves. My son had a non Catholic teacher (he was a total tospott anyway and a bully) in a Catholic school. My son was totally terrified by the Noah's Ark story, because God drowned all of the people because some were bad.

How does anyone tell a child that a God who has drowned everyone barr Noah and his wife plus all the animals 2 x 2 that this God is a good, loving and forgiving God.

When he asked me even brought up as a Catholic I couldn't answer apart from to say God really messed up big time and he was so sorry he promised he'd never do it again, interspersed with "it's a load of old hooey anyway". It formed a major obsession with his OCD and took a long time for him to come to terms with it.

Then asked at school and was told something about a dove and a rainbow being sent which son was buying into.

He doesn't believe now because believing is just too terrifying for him.

[SardineQueen]

Mitmoo that is very true.

New testament = mostly a lot of nicey stuff which I think is what people think of when they think of christianity being taught. Who can argue with children being told about teh good samaritan what's the harm?

Old testament has some utterly terrifying stuff in it.

Having said that the image of a man dragging a cross through the streets while being taunted, bleeding from a crown of thorns and then being nailed to said cross and left to die is not exactly a barrel of laughs.

[SardineQueen]

If something like that was in a video game many strict religious types would be up in arms saying it was too violent and should be banned or given an 18 cert.

Funny old world, innit.

[Andrewofgg]

Funny old world, SardineQueen, this time I entirely agree with you. Does that mean we are both wrong? :o

[BigHairyGruffalo]

So, does this mean that it is ok to teach children about the contents of religious texts as long as only the nice bits are taught?

Surely that gives a very skewed impression of the religion?

[TalkinPeace2]

on radio 4 they pointed out that 2/3 of schools are breaking the law
but that 3/4 of parents approve of the lawbreaking!

[Birdsgottafly]

The law is so vaguely written that if challanged most schools propably aren't flouting it.

Christmas, Harvest festival time (or similar), Easter, Recyling, animal welfare, Mothering Sunday, giving thanks generally, thinking of others; charities, red nose days, own clothes days where the money goes to a good cause, is all part of Christinanity as well as other religions.

Word things in a right way and you cover all bases.

[Mitmoo]

Bighairy To me it means it is better that teachers don't teach the contents of religious texts but leave it to the parents and their chosen churches if they want to.

It also means that if parents want their children to be brought up in a religion they can chose a faith school where that is a part and parcel of the ethos of that school.

Teach them about different religions but don't teach them this stuff is real just that "some people believe that...."

[Mitmoo]

My son is currently in a faith school btw and they teach him religion which I am OK with so long as he's OK with it. I have told the school that he has had major problems with religion and OCD in the past so it's only fair that if he struggles again they know and can consult with me/CAMHS etc.

They seem to deal with it very sensitively though so fingers and toes crossed.

I am not against it being taught across the board, just that it should be the parents choice to send their children to faith school and not one law for all schools.

[BigHairyGruffalo]

Ah, I see what you mean. I completely agree that it should be up to the parents. I thought you meant that schools should teach the 'fluffy' side of religions and leave out the rest.

I hope everything goes well for your son.

[scrambedeggs]

i used to like assembly with singing and prayers, made me feel comforted in some way. I love hymns as well, think many of them are very powerful

im not at all religious but do think there is a place for stories from the bible (or whatever) even in they are modernised. Most of them have a message and certainly give kids food for thought (especially when they dont get any guidance at home of any sort)

[MamaChocoholic]

yanbu. the law should be changed tho. I think I heard the Bishop of Oxford on R4 this morning say that he thought even a 100% muslim school should have a broadly christian act of daily worship . surely I must have misheard, but he did say some other crazy stuff about how the law should not be changed, but should not be enforced.

[bigbadbarry]

YANBU and there is a petition here if you feel strongly that the law is wrong. (Sorry if it has already been linked: have just skimmed thread.)

[NotJustKangaskhan]

festi Neither I nor my DC celebrate or get presents for Christmas or Easter - but I don't see why that makes me a more relevant person to complain about it. Surely all parents have a right to agree or disagree what is in their children's education?

[hermionestranger]

The trouble is that parents are able to chose a faith school, we allegedly have choice but in reality we all tend to get stuck with whatever the council/lea have decided on for us.

[TalkinPeace2]

I am against ANY top down rulings on RE in schools - it should be left to the head to understand THEIR school to make the decision.
The banning of religion in USA schools has led to the split system (religious HE by the tens of thousands) that is so dangerous
BUT overtly faith schools of any hue should not get state funding

[SardineQueen]

But overtly religious schools of all hues get state funding here talkin.

[TalkinPeace2]

I know.
War monger Bliar saw to that. He is the "God Parent" of the spawn of Murdoch after all.

Mine went to a CofE Primary but it reinforced their atheism beautifully!

[eurochick]

Interesting thread. I had no idea that having religious worship was a legal obligation. It seems totally out of step with modern society.

My own view is that education should be entirely secular, with no worship included. That should take place outside school, if it is wanted. It pains me to say it, but the French have this right.

[Empusa]

"My own view is that education should be entirely secular, with no worship included."

Definitely. I just can't see any advantages to worship in schools

bigbadbarry Thanks for the link, have signed it!

[malinois]

@festi:

just wondered how many of you who are totaly against christian worship will be accepting and exchanging christmas presents?

Why do you think that being against religious education in schools makes people against all religious worship? Take a look at the US, one of the most Christian countries in the world (far more so than the UK) and yet no religious worship or education (not even RE!) in state-funded schools at all.

And what has Christmas to do with it? It is largely a secular festival, not a religious one, and the religious element long predates Christianity in any case.

honestly the law also states all public transport ie taxis should carry a bale of hey and dont, does this law also out rage you?

No it doesn't, stop making up nonsense.

[SardineQueen]

talking religious schools received state funding here before tony blair became PM. It has been going on since the start, as the original schools were set up by the church.

[2rebecca]

I think making "worship" compulsary in schools is nonsense, fair enough in a faith school.
People exchanged gifts in midwinter before Christmas and Christianity.