to ask you to explain to dh, that 1, women are still often told to wear make up and heels to work 2, whys its a problem for women

[carriedababi]

just had a big arguement with him, we where talking about the tv programme, about pamper palours for children, and although i by no means with children having make up etc, i said to dh, i think a bigger problem is that fact that alot of women are told to wear make up at work and even heels.

i went on to explain that noone should be forced to wear heels that are actually bad for your health and that people shouldn't work for places like that then

i know the bank of england a couple of years ago advised the women working there on how to dress for sucess.

so aibu in thinking this is a comon problem
and hwo else can i get it through to dh, why this is a problem

I know a hairdresser who went to work in makeup and was told to put more makeup on.

I wouldn't take a job where makeup was required. Like cabin crew (although I think fear of flying woudl be a bigger problem )

I have never worked in a job where make-up and heels were necessary. My background is sales and marketing and I have had many customer facing roles. Obviously, looking smart and well groomed were important, but I have never been told to wear make-up and heels. All it takes is to be clean, tidy and well presented.

Obviously, if you are selling make-up and not wearing any yourself it can present the wrong message, but I tend to find that most cosmetics sales personnel wear too much and find it rather off putting.

UsingMainlySpoons - Harrods is a good example - they have a dress code for female staff which runs to a couple of pages. It also has a code, of the same length and detail, for male staff. So a rare (and so far upheld in Court) example of an even-handed approach.

I think, as TrillianAstra points out, that the insinuation is commoner than actual instruction. And every time it is complied with, it becomes more persuasive.

Then again, many women wear make up, heels and tight clothing for fun in their own time. So (except sex establishments such as Hooters), what is being requested is one version of main stream. Same for men - the crucial difference being that men's costume nowadays seems less restrictive. The pervasive expectations go well beyond the workplace.

Most of the jobs I have worked in, it has been the case that heels / makeup are the standard for meeting clients / colleagues from other companies etc

While it's not said, it is clear that not conforming to this code is not going to look good for you or your prospects.

Strangely, thinking about it, some of my male colleagues were a bit scruffy (suited and booted but shoes scratched, shirt unironed, jacket crumpled etc) and no-one thought anything of it.

meditrina there is a difference between wearing high heels for fun, for a couple of hours in the evening and when you have anaesathised yourself to the discomfort with booze and wearing them day in day out including a hefty commute when you would not normally wear them all day.

A friend of mine working on a very big name grad scheme was told to wear heels & make up as part of her performance review.

When I worked in Harrods you didn't have to wear heels btw. The worst one I came across was a US airline which stated what colour underwear (and as it was white bra and knickers; their blouses were a bit see though, and 50% of the staff were black; it didn't seem appropriate/desirable really); but it was pretty much ignored at least by UK staff.
But although I've come across "Business Attire" I haven't come across anyone being forced into heels/make up.

I haven't come across anyone who's been told they must wear heels. However, if you go into those clothes shops where the staff have to wear outfits from the shop and ask, you'll often find them in heels. My mate told me there used to be a massive rush to put your name forward for the one part of flat shoes that would be allowed - and everyone else would end up having to wear heels because someone had to 'showcase' them. So, they weren't made to wear heels and it's possible the person in head office didn't even think about it ... but, um, ouch!

I also work in a place where the only part of me that is seen is my eyes.

We are not allowed to wear make up, jewellery or hairspray.

I love it and could not do a job where I had to wear make up and heels.

However there is a woman that is in tears every time she has to rotate in to our section because she can't wear make up.

it always only takes five posts on a thread like this for somebody to say 'greasy hair and mucky fingernails' are not acceptable.

i do not wear make up, and i do not wear what others would consider heels (sometimes very comfy wedges, occassionally an inch of heel if I choose to).. but my hair is NEVER greasy, always clean, and my bare, unmanicured fingernails are healthy, and not dirty or bitten - in fact they are the pink white that french manicures attempt to emulate in a fake way. i do not have spots - except very occassionally - and i am not scabby.

why do so many people equate 'make up' with 'not being dirty'??? it's so deep seated, as i say it comes up in EVERY SINGLE thread about it on here.

I was told on work experience at just 16, in the field I now work in, that make up and heels were necessary for 'respect'. I wore make up to work for the first few years once I qualified. I don't any more. I don't think my colleagues either junior or senior, or my patients, really care. As for heels, I change into them at work. I have always worn flats, but it was actually my mum that hassled me endlessly into replacing them, and I gave in to the endless pestering ("you're too senior for that nonsense these days you know"!! - I guess she was of an age and worked in a very male dominated field but still was a bit stunned to hear this). I can't handle the commute in them though! I might go back to wearing make up - but if I do, it'll be for me not anyone else.
It's the whole "women are taken more seriously if they beautify themselves" thing that is so abhorrent - men on the other hand, merely have to be clean.

I've never heard to anyone been made to dress up with heels and make-up for work, but it is a fact that more attractive people (male & female) are more sucessful and earn more. Our society percieves that to mean make-up and heels on a woman.

I can't believe anyone (except maybe in some small niche areas) could get away with making it compulsory, but sadly, it remains good advice.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/beautiful-people-earn-12-more-than-ugly-bettys-461261.html reference

As a teenager i worked in a solicitors office as a secretary and no trousers were allowed, we had to wear skirts. That was a good few years ago mind you, i wonder if they have now changed that policy.

try again

Oh the one time I have been grateful for a woman wearing make-up was the anaesthetist when I had a CS. Thinking about her nail polish distracted me from thinking about what else was going on.
I tend to wear make up because it makes me feel better about myself (but its my choice). I used to wear heels when younger, but now go for flats as comfort in feet is crucial. However I also think sandals aren't appropriate for some jobs, but then that is on safety grounds.

create I'm sorry to burst your bubble but no amount of makeup will make an ugly duckling into a swan, and a person with natural beauty will look beautiful with no makeup and wearing a bin bag.

I've been told that I have to wear make up and 'a bit of a heel' (retail).
I also had a job where there was no dress code, where the owner/manager regularly had egg on his tie, unruly hair, and the 'dot of shame' after coming out of the gents. He was fine with my appearance, indeed never mentioned it. Other male staff - my colleagues not my boss - felt it was fine to discuss how I could improve my appearance. I was called scruffy, suggestions were made about what sort of clothes would be flattering. I looked fine: skirts, boots and a fitted cardi most days.

In my former career (catering) heels were definately not allowed (if you ever seen anyone slip on a kitchen floor, whilst wearing 4" heels you'd understand) and make up was discouraged. It makeds me cross that people equate no make up etc with untidy/unpresentable. Always happens on these threads.

i've never had a job where i've been told to wear heels! though i don't work in the corporate world where i expect it's the norm.

how depressing. i wear converse type shoes with office trousers if someone told me i had to wear heels i would seriously question it!

i remember not taking one job in 1987 where wearing trousers was banned and all women had to wear skirts. good move on my part i think!

I have never been told specifically, but it's always been implied. Woman who don't wear makeup at our office tend to end up having a quiet word an being told to.

Heels are less of an issue now, it's ok to wear flats, as long as they are smart, however, wearing flats is usually seen as a sign that your boss isn't in, or has no visitors to the office (rare in our office), it's seen as dressing down - even if we are talking smart flats, not ballet pumps or flat boots.

The general consensus in our office is that kitten heels are the way forward.

A friend of mine was a recruitment consultant several years ago. Halfway through her employment, her contract was changed, and she became contractually obliged to wear makeup to work. There was even a list of what should be present.

The company also banned male employees from having facial hair of any description. It went under before anyone could challenge the new rules seriously.

I've seen plenty of women in non-dress code workplaces wear make up and heels. I've been considered odd because I don't. And many women in make up and heels going about their everyday business.

It's a norm isn't it - and indeed Dylthan's comment about the reaction of one colleague to a make up ban is interesting. It shows that for some it's become more than that - voluntarily embracing this "dress code" and it is so much part of their life that they are distressed without it.

You can make similar points about teen tribes. What is interesting here is why there is so much willingness to out up with lack of comfort (and indeed bodily pain even damage) to conform.

I know that Sardine, I said the "perception" There's a huge industry created by the fact that people believe it.

FWIW, I do wear heels at work because I like them, but trainers too and from. Other than a bit of powder on my shiny nose, I stopped wearing make-up about 20 years ago.

I had a job when I was a student where I was told to wear heels,make-up and coloured nail varnish. I was sacked after a couple of months. The men had to be 'smart'. The main thing I objected to at the time was the expense but I think in my naivety had I owned makeup at the time I would have just put it on unthinkingly.