to ask you to explain to dh, that 1, women are still often told to wear make up and heels to work 2, whys its a problem for women

[carriedababi]

just had a big arguement with him, we where talking about the tv programme, about pamper palours for children, and although i by no means with children having make up etc, i said to dh, i think a bigger problem is that fact that alot of women are told to wear make up at work and even heels.

i went on to explain that noone should be forced to wear heels that are actually bad for your health and that people shouldn't work for places like that then

i know the bank of england a couple of years ago advised the women working there on how to dress for sucess.

so aibu in thinking this is a comon problem
and hwo else can i get it through to dh, why this is a problem

this was our uniform for 10 hours at a time <a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=clean+room+clothing&hl=en&client=safari&sa=X&rls=en&biw=1562&bih=956&tbm=isch&prmd=ivns&tbnid=H2QSS_-hMRDCnM:&imgrefurl=www.crtoy.com/en/crproducts/&docid=vtS0OXPTBIZ8uM&w=190&h=395&ei=mHxmTrXjJcqs8gP7l6SkCg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=961&vpy=545&dur=630&hovh=167&hovw=83&tx=92&ty=142&page=1&tbnh=167&tbnw=83&start=0&ndsp=44&ved=1t:429,r:32,s:0" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">sexy! Was surprising the amount of folk who found love or had affairs with all this lot on.

Annie I would obviuly judge the dinosaurs and laugh behind their backs

begonyabampot - mine is exactly the same only blue. (hence the fat smurf comment)

I couldn't wear high heels all day for work. I fractured my metatarsal a couple of years ago and ever since have had pain if I'm not careful with shoes. I'd love someone to manufacture flat and strong shoes that look attractive though. I usually end up with granny shoes or at best very functional because no one has realised that flat/low heel with decent support doesn't have to mean ugly and unfashionable.

I am amazed that any company in this day and age would require heels or make-up. Just astonished.
I have never used either - and never had a proper job ... hmm is there some connection, how depressing.

If you interface with the public or other stakeholders what's wrong with being well presented. I always wear a little bit of make-up and am neat and tidy and although I walk to work in footglove shoes, change into smarter ones when I get to work. I don't see what's wrong with making the best of oneself. At least I don't have to wear a wig like DH .

Smart is one thing

Heels, for many people anyway, hurt.

so why don't the men wear make-up, and heels if this is 'making the best of oneself' or don't they have to?

i'm really starting to wonder if muslim women who choose to cover up more actually have more freedom and less judgement.

Depends on their job. DH has to dress within very regimented constraints. Shaves, well barbered hair, right shoes, dark or black suits, right sort of shirt and tie and very specialist stuff for certain occasions. He certainly couldn't just do his own thing for work.

At the end of the day I am happy to conform to being smart and feminine. Always have been and whilst respecting other people's choices, I don't understand why women don't want to make themselves look pretty, elegant, stylish, well groomed.

I equally don't understand why so many woman choose to wear such hideously ridiculous high heels, or spend so much time and money on putting on a full face of makeup (many of whom have serious issues of being seen without it). I really don't understand it but like you I try to respect their choices even though if I were being honest I see it all as being a bit weak.

A close friend of mine - mid twenties, petite, always neatly presented but often wearing several layers such as a long sleeved top, jumper and cardigan because she feels the cold - was recently taken to one side by her late middle aged manager's manager and advised that she should make more of her appearance, wear her hair down, think about her femininity etc. This is in a back office admin role in the civil service. When her female line manager found out she nearly blew her top and I was speechless, but she didn't want to make a fuss when she's quite a junior grade and he's so much more senior than her. I think it's ridiculous that someone can get away with pressuring a junior member of staff like that. She's always clean and tidy, and dressed for the office. Why should she be pressured into wearing her hair down and showing some leg rather than wrapping up warm in an always bloody cold office, just because a dinosaur likes the girls in the office to look tarted up!

I'm telling ya, those burkas are looking more attractive by the hour!

Well this thread has demonstrated one thing to me. We don't need men to patronise, judge and label us for how we look. We can do that all for ourselves

How utterly depressing

so you never, ever judge a woman initially on how she looks or what kind of clothes she wears etc, really, truly, you never raise an eyebrow or think 'whoaaa!'? I kind of don't believe you, no matter how many sad faces you use.

where are women forced to war heels and make up? bar air hostesses !!!!

I do wear both but thats cos I have aged 1 millon years since having DS2 (why???????????????) and heels make me look taller and slimmer

YANBU. Obviously people should be clean and tidy for work, but why should anyone have to wear uncomfortable shoes or paint themselves?

porcamiseria - well Harrods for a start and I'd imagine many fashion shops, especially trendy or high end ones. Also, what people are saying is that even if it isn't in the contract, their career would have suffered and probably many wouldn't even get offered these jobs in the first place if they had turned up for the interview with no make-up and flat shoes no matter how neat and tidy.

marriedinwhite could you define feminine for us?

I guess I do judge but I am more likely to look on someone with foundation etc with sadness that their self esteem is so damaged that they feel they have to do that for some reason.

I wear make-up because I prefer how I look with it on. The only time I was asked to wear more of it was when I worked in a beauty salon as a teenager.

Working in a corporate environment, it is perfectly possible to look smart without heels and makeup, and I would imagine that those women might in fact be taken more seriously than the "eye candy" in full-on slap and teetering heels?

notevenamousie why would you assume low self esteem from a woman in foundation? If, for example, you thought that you looked better wearing red than wearing green, you might wear red... What's the problem?

Not sure green vs red compares because it's either or rather than something or nothing.
If your value of yourself is based on how you look - if you are not comfortable in you are but feel you have to add something to it to make other people like you or be attracted to you or respect your professional opinion - then yes, I would say that is low self esteem. And I do sometimes wear make up and it is to precisely those situations where my self confidence and self esteem is vulnerable - social situations, big conferences etc. I don't like it in myself but then I'm a work in progress in accepting myself as I am. But the honesty with myself that that is what I'm doing is something I have found is helping with that acceptance.

True (re: green vs red).

You have a point. I guess my makeup covers blemishes that I'd rather others didn't see. I can't say I wear it for myself, as I wouldn't wear it at home alone

I'd say the self esteem thing is more when you can't be seen without it. I've had some friends who never go without makeup and literally won't let people see them without it.

People do see me without it, but generally if I'm going somewhere I put it on - just a "natural" amount, nothing full-on. But still.