to wish mil would stp ranting about ds learning to swim and to think a 4 year old doesn't *need* to

[lecce]

Sorry this is long, it probably seem something and nothing but it is getting to me!

Mil is quite a controlling woman - she loves being a gp but can be quite opinionated. Fortunately, we share similar opinions on most aspects of child-rearing, though she has made comments here and there, which I have tended to smile and ignore.

The main 'problem' (though it hasn't really caused and huge problem as such, yet) is that when she spends time with the dc she likes to be in charge and dominate them. I am f/t wohp and dh a sahd so we have mainly got around this by her seeing them while I am at work - thereby giving dh a little break and not annoying me!

When ds1 was about 6 months old and I went back to work she said she wanted to take him to swimming lessons. Now I can't swim and dh was new to being a sahd then and unsure about whether he could/wanted to take ds to the parent/ child sessions, so we agreed. I will admit I felt a little put out about it because I felt that she wanted to have a 'project' with ds - it wasn't enough for her to visit him, she had to be the one to teach him to swim. I told myself I was being silly/ a bitch and the swimming lessons went ahead, with much fanfare from mil.

Ds was always a little lacking in confidence physically and I became aware that mil was having problems getting him to join in with some of the activities the class were doing - splashing/etc. She was never horrible about it but she did make several comments comparing him to other children and this annoyed me. I raised it with dh and he felt I was just jealous of his mother taking ds swimming, there may well have been some truth in this so I let it drop.

Another annoyance was that I am a teacher and she continued with the lessons during the school holidays. This was ok in itself (though I will admit a couple of times I deliberatlely accidentally arranged other stuff on those days so it had to be cancelled) but she lives a 90 minute drive away, suffers from insomnia and the lesson was at 9.45am. She would arrive right at the last minute, in a complete flap and bark orders at me about the stuff he needed. It was a pain and I began to think if it was so hard for her why didn't she just drop it? We never asked her to take him. It became clear dh felt the same as I did as when I mentioned her lateness/stressed manner he agreed and said he was worried it was too much for her.

Fortunately, I then went on mat leave with ds2 and it all fizzled out a little and then ds turned 3 and too old for the accompanied classes anyway. We considered starting him on the next classes but money was pretty tight when I was on mat leave and it was not our priorty. Since then (this was over a year ago) mil is always on at us to start him on the classes saying we 'really must get it sorted' and asking whether we have 'managed to sort it out yet' and sighing heavily when the answer is 'no'. The thing is, we have looked into it but I really don't see any hurry. I have done some research and it seems to suggest that most children aren't physically ready to swim before 7 and he will get lessons through school before then, right? He and his brother do 2 other classes - both of which they asked to do and love and to do a third seems an expense we could forgo - or AWBU?

The thing is, now she has said that she is going to start taking ds1 to swimminng lesosns again - why???? Why can't it be our decision? I feel she has decided that we are so irresponsible we were never going to get around to it and it has all been left to her yet does he really need to swim now? I say no. I am also annoyed that she doesn't offer to take ds2 to the same classes she took ds1 to. Imo, that would be the more logical step and would mean she had treated them both equally but instead she has this obsession with ds1 swimming but couldn't care less about ds2! (Btw, I don't expect her to take ds2, just feel it would make more sense than what she is proposing.) Also, I am not sure how she would deal with any reluctance on ds's part (I am sure there would be some because he would be nervous) and just feel that she may handle it in a way dh and I would not be happy with - I'm not talking about endangering him, obviously, but he does lack confidence a little physiacally (though has improved a lot) and I don't know how gentle she'd be and how much comparing him to others in the class there would be. Most of all, I really don't like being told that this is happening.

AIBU to tell her no?

I think that it´s something that you & your husband need to sort out & leave MIL out of it tbh-but give her some credit for having the initiative & starting lessons.

Are there any private lessons in the evening when you´ve finished work for example or early Sat/Sun morning?

The one thing that I alway insisted on was my DCs learning to swim.
7yrs is too old. All his friends will be able to swim then. I used to do swimming parties for birthdays from 6 yrs up. All the friends could swim.
I took them from babies and we started with mother and baby sessions. It is an essential skill and might save their life.
They will have lessons at school but by that time there are generally about 2 DCs a class who are beginners.

I was going to say YABU but I see you've already conceded that point so I won't bother!

However, I'm still going to waffle on a bit. I took DS babyswimming at 4mo because I am a crap swimmer who doesn't like going underwater. I hoped to avoid this fear in him but sadly at age 9m, he had a bad experience with the underwater photographer and got scared. The fear then got worse and worse, I persevered for another 2 terms, both at the same level (he couldn't progress) and then gave up because he would start wailing as soon as we got into the pool. :(

So, FFWD a few months - we moved to Australia and have our own pool. Got DS into it, it has a ledge so he can walk all round the edge just about bum deep, and a sitting area at both ends. I carried on doing the stuff I'd learnt with him at babyswimming (except the actual dives) and he got more confident and happier in the water. Then he saw some other children, similar age to himself, swimming with noodles in their own pool - he didn't try it then but did when he came back to ours. Then another problem (all boys in the pool, his Dad, another Dad and his son, none paying proper attention) and DS got on the noodle too close to one end and of course slid off underwater. LUCKILY he was spotted almost immediately but the damage was done - Fear returned. took ages to get him back on the noodle again. :(

He is now 3.9. He is starting proper swimming lessons in a month's time because he needs to do it with other children, so that he can watch them and realise it's not that bad. It's just far too dangerous for him not to be able to swim, at least to the side of the pool - he's not too young for it at all, some of his friends started lessons last year, and children we know who are already 4 can swim.

So - sorry for the ramble - but yes it is important and no it's not too early.

And I think here is as good a place as any to repost this article on drowning - "drowning doesn't look like drowning", or silent drowning. It takes very little time indeed for small children to drown, far less than for adults, and it's important to recognise it for what it is. It's also important to learn first aid for submersion, and to know about dry drowning.

Do most of these swimming lessons take place whilst you are at work? (obviously not when you are on ML or school holidays)...

I think as a WOHP that sometimes you do need to mentally "close the front door" and trust the SAHP and let them get on with it - if your DH thinks its okay for his DM to take your DS swimming then, unless you actually feel she is endangering him (and being controlling and wanting her own thing isn;t in any way endangering) then you need to close the door on that and let them get on with it...

I agree with the other posters who say it's an important skill but also a fun activity. Might they be invited to swimming parties, trips to pool with friends, guides scouts etc?
My dc started water confidence classes at 4 and my ds could swim a mile at 8. We have been away camping in france and it's great to give them a towel and say off you go to the pool see you in an hour ( he is older now and able to go off on his own)
I think you said you were a teacher up thread, my local pool dies intensive daily courses through the school holidays.
I found these to be excellent as they made much more progress than with lessons spread out over weeks and weeks.
Does your local pool do something similar.?

Does your MIL perhaps worry about DS1 losing confidence and momentum after she made the initial 'investment' in his swimming (both with time and financially)? My PIL have looked after DD one day a week in term time since she was 18mo, and always take her swimming on that day, but also encourage DH and I to take her a often as possible so that their hard work isn't wasted. If your MIL knows that neither you or your husband are bothered about taking your children swimming she probably feels that she needs to nag.

As other posters have said, swimming is very important, and young children are very capable of learning. My DD got her 25m badge when she was 2, and now she's 3.6 can manage a fairly quick front crawl, and can dive to the bottom of the deep end to retrieve a dive stick. This is, in part, due to my PIL's persistence, and I am grateful to them.

Totally agree with all other posters, it's an important life skill and 4 is definitely not too early. I have always loved swimming so have taken my 2 since they were very little babies. DS could swim unaided age 2.5 and at 4 can swim a length. DD is 2 and I suspect it won't be long before she is off on her own.

It's great when we go on holiday as they are very keen to spend hours and hours in the pool so DH and I can take turns reading and sunbathing!! That's one of the best things about teaching them to enjoy swimming!!

The row with your MIL is really another issue as others have said, if it wasn't about swimming it'd be about something else, so don't let this prevent your DC learning an important life skill.

YABU saying your DS doesn't need to have swimming lessons yet. It is so important that children learn to swim. I started taking DD to a baby/toddler water session once a week when she was 1, and DS started going to the pool when he was about 18 months old. I actually think I missed the slot for DS by starting him a little later as he is nowhere near as confident in the water as DD. He will be starting proper lessons when he turns 3.

DD has been having formal swimming lessons since she was 3 and is now a confident swimmer who is happy to jump into the deep end (with an adult present) and can now swim a length of our local swimming pool.

My DN who is nearly 11 has never had proper swimming lessons, and has no confidence in the water, nor does her brother. I think it is such a shame that they have missed their opportunity to learn to swim properly and probably won't ever be as confident as they would have had they learned when they were little.

wow why is this being made so stressful! why do we need the whole leson thing why not all go swimming just for fun build everys confidence, go together no ones left out. my little one could swim very early never had a lesson we just went often and had fun!!

One the one hand, I too have a MIL who has been known to try to get her own way by throwing money at stuff (including my wedding!!) so I know how frustrating it can be - on the other, I think swimming is really important.

I've taken DS (PFB) to simming lessons since he was 6 months old. At that age, it's not about teaching them to swim but teaching them to have confidence in the water. Simple things like being able to cope if water gets splashed in their faces makes children so much happier in a pool and that attitiude can help them learn to swim when they are ready. Our baby lessons also included teaching them the spin round to face the side as soon as they hit the water when jumping in, moving themselves along the side to find a good place to climb out and climbing out of the pool - all lifesaving skills should your child ever fall into water. Just learning to jump in and be OK with getting water in their faces is also important so they don't panic should they ever fall.

DS is now 4.5 and got his 5m swimming badge at the end of last term. He's still swimming mostly with his face in the water as he's not strong enough to lift himself yet but he can get himself to the side of a pool and climb out which could easily save his life - and he's getting better every week. He's quite happy paddling round the pool on a woggle/noodle too.

DD is 20 months and I've been taking her to lessons for about 8 months. She is totally happy in the water and can find the side and climb out already. She loves splashing and happily blinks water out of her eyes if she gets it in the face. She's tripped and gone under before (with me about 30cms away and able to quickly get her up) but because of her confidence, It's no big deal for her and hasn't upset her.

I'm really pleased of where we are because my Grandma was scared of the water which made my Mum a late and very uncomfortable swimmer and me a late and weak swimmer who almost drowned as a child. I'm very proud of how far we have come towards ending that legacy and I feel like my children are safer because of it. Watching them in the water is lovely too.

Oh, and there are a couple of Dads at our classes too so don't let that put your DH off the lessons :)

Wow, lots more replies - all of which I appreciate.

Does your MIL perhaps worry about DS1 losing confidence and momentum after she made the initial 'investment' in his swimming (both with time and financially)? Not financially as the accompanied lessons were free (thank you surestart) but in terms of time, yes probably and, tbh, I find this annoying. No one asked her to do this, she insisted, made a huge song and dance about it and I resent the implication that we are putting her efforts to waste when it was entirely her own decision to take it on. Fwiw, I am very busy at work most of the year and I don't like being told how to spend the fairly limited free-time I have. That said, I am now convinced that this is something I should make the effort with but it's the being made to feel like a child that I object to.

It's nice to hear all your stories of your young dc who love water/swimming - I certainly want that for mine so I'm about to give the leisure centre a ring now!

Well done OP for recognising YABU

Clearly there is more to this than swimming, but as others have said you mil is right so pick your battles.

Please get your DC's lessons, learning to swim is a non negotiable life skill as far as I am concerned and I think you'll find that by the time they start lessons at school virtually all the kids will be confident swimmers.

Re swimming abilities, both my older DC could swim 100 metres at 4. Most of that is down to the fact that they swim most days but lessons have turned them from good swimmers to strong swimmers. We also have a neighbour whose 19mth old wandered off and fell in a pool, she had been having lessons rolled onto her back and was found floating and calling for help.

Here (Germany) it is just "the done thing"-like riding a bike!

We once had a neighbour who didn´t own a bike & we were all

I wanted mine to learn so that they could enjoy swimming & being near water-which they both do.

I understand that you feel that your mil is being a bit pushy but I do think YABU with regards to not continuing with the swimming lessons particularly if she is paying.

My dc have been having lessons since they were babies.

My dd could swim widths at 3 and lengths at 4 and is now at the age of 7 an excellent swimmer who is now learning the butterfly stroke. She is like a fish in water and absolutely loves it. She will often ask us to go swimming at weekends because she loves it so much.

My ds aged 4 can swim 25m and is a very confident swimmer although technically he isn't as good as my daughter. However a year ago he lost his confidence completely when an instructor pushed him too far literally and didn't keep an eye on him. He almost drowned and went from being a happy, overly confident swimmer to being very scared. He had lots of one on one sessions with a fantastic instructor who didn't pushed him but by the end of 6 lessons he got his confidence back and went back to loving being in the water.

What I am trying to say is that with patient teaching you can turn the situation around. Perhaps if you went for swimming lessons as well you could show the children that you are all llearning and that it's okay not to be able to swim but that you can all do it together.

I am glad that you changed your mind, OP, not least because swimming is an essential life skill in my book, too, and obviously you both struggle to take him. Although I also think you can feel free to whinge about the MIL's pushy manner otherwise (a bit).

DC have never had any active relatives in their lives; I would BITE the hand off of a relative willing to do a regular activity with them (within limits :)). I believe you should value that alone more highly.

Let us know what the Leisure Centra have to say OP!

I just wanted to reassure your DH that I swim regularly and there are lots of dads there with their children, I think it is quite a common dad-child activity, even for dads that go to work. This is especially true early-ish in the mornings at weekends, giving their wives a break, so there might be an additional benefit to you suggesting it and reassuring him!

My dd could swim a couple of meters a little before she was 3 1/2. It would have been enough for her to get back to the side of the pool if she had fallen in accidentally. Swimming lessons are one of my top priorities. The earlier the better IMO.

We go as a family at the weekend. Not every week but certainly once a month and sometimes more often. DS1 is just 3 and he can swim on his own with his armbands - he went the length of a 25 metre pool a fortnight ago. DS2 is 5 months and he splashes along with me or DH, kicking his legs and doing a paddle motion with his arms. It is never to soon to learn.
I have always swum though, hundreds of lessons, trips to the pool, the seaside and I am very confident in the water. My own Mum is much less confident, doesn't like putting her head under etc and she was determined that none of us should be the same if she could possibly help it.

I do think you are being highly unreasonable about your MIL. And I agree with Bathsheba that your DH, as SAHP, should be allowed to use his judgement with this. IF he is happy for his Mum to do it, then that should be enough for you.
I think it is lovely that she wants to do it, and that you should be more grateful.

At our local pool there are usually more dads with kids than mums.

Swimming lessons almost like learning to ride a bike round here (in England, but near the sea) and I do think it's important both for safety but also because it's fun and a fabulous form of exercise.

Lessons through school here are for one half-term per school year, starting in Y3 - this is obviously not actually enough to teach a child to swim, and I think it was awkward for the 2 non-swimmers in DD's class last year when they realised that everyone else could swim, some v competently (DD can swim a km, aged 7).

Anyway, so glad that you're looking into lessons - separate it from the MIL issue I think.

Here in Sweden (still on holiday) it is also the done thing, but I have to say that very few children I know have learnt to swim properly much before age 6. But this is possibly because they learn to swim out of doors, in a cold and choppy sea infested by jellyfish- so what they are learning is a slightly different skill. Mine have only had a few weeks of formal lessons but are strong confident swimmers and are doing various badges on their own (with mummy shivering on the beach). I think it being a fun activity has been the most important aspect.

In the UK- I wouldn't trust to school swimming lessons- in dcs schools they are only offered to children who cannot swim the width of the pool (and there were several of those in Yr 5 when the tests were done).

And yes, certainly at the weekend the pool is stuffed with Dads. The baby/toddler groups during the week do tend to be mostly (although not exclusively) Mums.

I can only echo what other people have said about swimming lessons for under 7s being pointless is utter bunkum. Apparently I could swim before I could walk (not a recognisable stroke, obviously, but propel myself forwards and keep my head above water so 'safety swimming') although that might possibly have been because my Dad was a swimming instructor and as he was self employed and a SAHD, I got carted along to all the mother and baby sessions he ran so was in the water every single day, often twice a day, from a few weeks old. I was the 'test case' in every class as he used me to demonstrate to the mums how to do the techniques he was showing them.

I don't know if you mentioned the age of your DS2 and I missed it, but I am assuming he is still quite little. It can be very overwhelming trying to supervise 2 small children in a pool and other posters are right when they say some pools have a 1:1 ratio rule for under 4/5s so TBH it is in your best interests to pack DS1 off with MIL for lessons, as when you then go swimming as a family it lessens the pressure on you of having 2 non swimmers.

I put off teaching my 2 DSs as I had them very close together and had no help taking them to the pool (my Dad was too ill by then to teach anymore) so I couldn't take them both and it was rare I could find someone to have one while I took the other. As a result, by the time DS1 started formal lessons he had developed a fear of the water and hated being splashed so it took so much longer to get him confident in the water. Because DS2 was that bit younger, he took to swimming like the proverbial duck and now at 10 is a strong swimmer and loves the water. DS1 is now 12 and still wary, although he can do 'survival swimming' but it has meant that he has missed out on some amazing opportunities with his Scout group as he isn't a strong enough swimmer and they don't have the scout:leader ratio to be able to keep as much of an eye on him as he needs.

I am not quite sure how we get from: "it is possible to learn to swim before age X" to "it is necessary to learn to swim before age X". I am not sure there is a cut-off date here, and if there is, it is definitely not in the pre-school years.

As I remember it, my dn was very wary of water in the early years, despite daily exposure to friendly beaches and a family that adores swimming. I am sure he didn't learn to swim until he was at least 6. Having recently supervised his backstroke badge -500 metres, in the sea, on a blowy night, in the bloody dark (thank you, SIL, for suggesting this idea) - I can testify that he does indeed know how to swim.

Good for you for taking a bashing well, and realising that yabu

You are ready to make the change now, so that's the important thing. Well Done.

The best start would probably be for all of you to go at the weekend, your dh will see that there will be lots of Dads their without Mums at the weekends, although it does tend to be the other way round during the week.

But it's a great thing for Dad to do alone with their children, and since my boys started school, swimming has always been more of a Dad thing than a mum or family thing. When they were younger we used him taking the oldest as a chance for us both to have one on one time, and as they got older it was great that they both had that Dad time. Unfortunately it was always me that had to do the lesson runs though, which is never much fun for me! But it is a neccesary evil.

Now that they are both confident swimmers though, they don't have lessons anymore. They cost money and there are other things they choose to do after school, I don't feel the need for them to go all the way through to livesaving (others) now that they are more than confident underwater and out of their depth.