to be fed up of feeling poor, dh on 45k i'm a sahm, we have no debts and a good life, yet i still feel a bit poor

[dovebird]

we don't have money worries, our house is worth a fair bit more[40k at least] more than we owe on it, i'm happy being a sahm, we have a happy marraige on the whole,healthy as far as we know,nice car, been one one holiday abroad this year and 5 weekends away in uk.
we have a largeish 3 bedroom house which more than meets our needs
we get to have days out and meals out fairly often

i am surrounded by wealthy people though, with huge houses and very good lifestyles [ie gardeners, cleaners, never do their own d.i.y etc]

i'm fed up of feeling poor all time.

But I do work xenia. What do you think I do all day with a one and a three year old? I went back to paid work after dd1 and it was like a holiday compared to how hard I work now.

(...and before anyone points out the obvious, dh has the afternoon off today!)

To answer your question, I do think envy is morally corrosive. I'm an atheist so sin is not a meaningful term to me.

"If you know that work makes most men and women happier"

Is it news to you that some of us prefer the happiness of our babies to our own?

I knew that I would rather continue to work full time in asset management. That would make me happy. What about the tiny baby I had just produced, who needed a mum? I would not even see her during the week because she would go to bed before I returned home.

When the second one is 3 next year, I fully intend to return to work. So that will be six years out of my life where I am not as happy as I would have been if I continued with my career. So what? My babies had mummy love & attention coming out of their ears during this time and that is well worth the boredom and intellectual wasteland that is being a housewife for a few years.

poverty in the UK is something we often talk about but I'm not sure I see

Actually, Xenia, that remark about envy struck a real chord with me; envy is in truth one of the seven deadly sins, and rightly so; IMHO it spoils life more than more genial sins.... It extends itself to every part of life.

Beautiful, eh? What a bitch. Oxbridge degree? Stuck-up cow.

So then I must not get an Oxbridge degree, because then I will have to give up all my friends, nor must I do anything at all - except sport? - that isn't equally open to anyone else. God forbid if I like Mozart better than Mamma Mia. I must be just putting on the dog.

And you, happy as an SAHM or a WAH - well, you shouldn't be, unless I am too. What's damning is that this is actually injustice, masquerading as a sense of justice.

There. surely that's enough moralising. What a gorgeous thunderstorm....

For once I agree with something Xenia said!

Xenia I agree with you that jealousy is wrong. Which is why I am very happy with my life, working PT for a charity and living in a beautiful rural area. No doubt if I'd been worried about keeping up with everyone else I would have followed the herd when we graduated and gone for a better paid job in London. I am so glad that I didn't

well tried to get a copy of afflueza today, but the library didn't have a copy.
will carry on with trying to get hold of that

i know the way i'm thinking is wrong, and i have reread this thread and can see that.
i will also look for the books suggested on here about happiness.

i love being a sahm its one thing i do feel very lucky i am able to choose, while the dc are still young, i want them to have the best childcare possible, which i feel no-one else could do a better job of then myself, i am very happy to do that and really enjoy our time together
of course i could choose to return to work before they start school and we would have more money, but i would rather choose to spend them time with the children and i don't want to comprimise on childcare at all.
so i realise i'm making my choices
also i don't want to move to a poorer area, although realise somewhere more in the middle would be more comfortable

i honestly don't think i'd care about jets or boats, just a large house lots of nice holidays and people to do the jobs i don't really want to do would be more than enough.

i am thick skinned though yes, even the harshes replys are not upsettiing me at all, probably because i agree, i am in the wrong for being so greedy

It's not true that only mothers can provide the best childcare but the thread is not really about that.

Is envy morally wrong and if it is how can people change their thought processes so it does not eat away at them inside?

Envy applies even if you live in a jungle hut but wish you'd got the man in your enclave or wanting breasts the side of the girl next to you in the grass skirt. It presumably is worse today because of the emphasis on self over others

What is interesting is whether the decline in most British people having a religion has left a vaccum into which envy and other wrongs have seeped. If you can have good moral values without religion it is a pity that and perhaps a coincidence that the reduction in religious practice has coincide with the consumer cult.

Anyway the surveys say surround you with lesser mortals and then you will be happy. If you move yourself to somewhere where most people are better (and better off might be prettier, or go to church more or earn 3 times what you do or whatever your own "better" criteria are) than you are you feel bad (because most people do have this envy thing). if you do the opposite people tend to be happier.

Even I who am an absolute not a relative poverty person and am happy with inequalities as life does not have to be fair, accept that more will whinge if others do better. Mind you trying to make everyone the same in Communist China in the old days was an abject failure.

So how to change your thoughts? YOu can change a thought as it develops. You can behave in a way which is how you want to be. You can ensure what comes out of your mouth to others is positive not negative. you can change what you are able to change and accept what you cannot.

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.

My comment to the original poster is either cheer up and be glad of what you have got or go out there and earn over £100k (may be improve your written English first, capital go down very well) - nothing to stop you but yourself. It's huge fun and great for children.

I would also like a bigger house (or indeed a non-rented house), a cleaner/housekeeper and any holidays that don't involve visiting the in-laws. So, in relative terms, you are 'better off' than me. But I feel motivated by these things, so work extra hard at my career and in other money-making activities so that we can have a better life from 40-60 and don't end up poor in old age (my worst fear).

I think it's a bit sad to sit around as a SAHM and not see that as a positive lifestyle choice (which it is): essentially you are saying you wish you married a higher earning male. Quite a sad story really and I think you'd have more integrity and happiness if you found your own source of interest and comfort in life, whether it be setting up a playgroup or getting your own satisfying career.

OP do you feel better now that you've told someone how much yuor dh earns?

Honestly. What a silly. People who want material things are quite boring. Why don't you go off and study something if you don't want to work? Give your brain something else to think about

Dunno how you afford all those holidays, we earn more than you and we're always skint and have had 1 week uk holiday this year. Not that I'm complaining bur you seem to manage your money well.

It's true
When we were earning that we never went anywhere (2 sets of nursery fees and a new mortgage though)

Dovebird Have just had another look at this thread. Confusing and intriguing and annoying and thoroughly fascinating.
Now, can you just define for me what it is you want ... Advice? sympathy? or just a friendly kick in the pants?
We can all pontificate for ever but the only one who can change your life is YOU.
Let's try this ... if there was one thing you could change about your life what would it be?
Off to Look forward to your reply.

Wishing the fairy from this story would turn up: podchild.com/estella/oldwoman.htm

Try to be grateful for what you have material things are that only material you
have alot more than most people, try living week from week, no holidays a kid to support and a house to maintain, no holidays , no meals out , no extras.

You do not know your born.

I think Xenia has a point. Op if you are worrying about this stuff could it be you are just a bit bored and stuck in a rut. Have you thought about working or studying? Broadening your outlook would probably help you feel better.

well i've been to another library to get affluenza, when i got there, after checking on the net they had it, they didn't have it.

i certainly am not saying i wished i'm married a higher earner, i'm happy with my dh and wouldn't change him.

alot of the people around us are older and thats perhaps partly why they are so much better off, due to having bought a house many years before we bought our first house.
plus it is true what you say, you don't know whos had what hanouts/gifts from inheritance/parents etc
or even who has a fabulous house but is only paying the interest only on their morgage

i do feel that, i can personally provide the best childcare possible for my children
and i feel that is fair to say when being accused of sitting around doing nothing, i can certainly say i work hard and do not have alot of spare time on my hands

anyway things will change alot once the dc go to school.
perhaps i will have all the material things i want then.

but i will try my best to focus on good things and try to have a positive mental attitude
i shall start a positive thread to counteract the bad karma from this one!
good to talk about it on here though, as it's not really the sort of thing you can openly talk about in RL.

crossword, i shall think about your question"if there was one thing you could change about your life what would it be?"
there is nothing that spring to mind instantly
well other than having more money, but of course that is not an actual answer
i will think your question over

Is this a joke, I would not be bragging if I were you, many people have it far worse than you. Have you ever seen "The Secret Millionaire" that will make you realise how lucky you are

pathetic

Dovebird actually you sound depressed - and what you describe sounds very familiar to anyone who has read "The Feminine Mystique" by Betty Friedan. Have a look at this - maybe a book to add to your reading list? Parts of it still very relevant - just because you have everything society says you might want doesn't mean society is right - you may want a different life to the one you have, at the moment you think you must want more of what you've been told you really want. just a thought.

I live in one world and work in another. In the world in which I live, we are moderately wealthy; in the world in which I work we would be regarded as stinking rich. In the world in which DH works we are nothing special. Relatively speaking we live modestly but I'm not sure to what extent either DH or I made choices on the basis of what we wanted materially, we are glass half full types of people, and found niches we enjoyed and worked hard and did well; had we done it for money alone I'm not sure we would have got here because we would have been striving for the wrong reasons.

I recall another thread though where somebody asked: "am I being unreasonable to have a third child when we live in a tiny flat and can't afford it or should the baby and my wish for it take precedence". I don't think that OP cared about her status but she was still slated by many. I remember posting that years and years ago we bought the massive house and wanted to fill its bedrooms with children but after five pgs and three births, managed to produce two healthy dc (one not so for the first twelve months or so). I adore my life and the two dc I have. I do not complain that I would have loved four or five and should have had three because I am grateful and thank God every day for the wonderful two that we got - in the end. If I could have kept three - I'd have given up every bit of material wealth we possessed.

It's all relative but I do think the OP needs to get her priorities a little straighter. Conversely, I think the OP has responded to a great deal of criticism with a great deal of dignity and has reflected very maturely - for that I take my hat off to her. She posted because she felt as she did and was honest. She wasn't nasty and I don't think she was intentionally unkind.

It's just that glass half full and glass half empty thing really. If you can change your thoughts to appreciate what you have that's all you need.

OP - it won't be much consolation but I really understand the house envy. We have a perfectly lovely flat in a nice area. But every time I go to my sister's house in london, which is a large victorian terrace and only for her and BIL I get complete house envy. I don't "need" anything like she has (although a garden would be nice for DC) but a nice house would be lovely to have. And the house price inflation of the last 10 years would make it very difficult for us to afford anything like that now.