to loathe this sense of entitlement we hear/read/see everyday

[scuzy]

the idea of some taxes is to pay into a pool for those in genuine need of some kind of benefits. but i am sick to death of people who feel that just because they paid tax for a certain amount of years they can now claim benefits just because they say "its their money". these people are making fraudulent claims but its justified to them because they have paid into the pot so to speak and now its their turn to give up working and relax.

if i hear "i am entitled to ..." one more time i'll smack someone!

we have become a nation of "entitlers".

even my own family ask why do i work x amount of hours when i coudl claim this that and the other. "you are entitled to you know"! er .... no i'm not.

Thankyou Blueberties.
They're all bastards.

Tax avoidance is legal because the rich elite have the power to influence the law. It's immoralthough. Earning £20 quid a week cleaning because you are struggling may be illegal but it's understandable.

Major benefit fraud is immoral but is dealt with by the DWP and the police already. So why get your knickers in a twist about it?

Christ, this has moved on a bit

"Tethersend you once said the money you pay in tax has never been "your" money because it was never in your bank account, it goes straight out of your pay packet. So it's just communal money even though you earned it, and you have no right to an opinion, approval or objection to how it's spent, because it's never been yours."

Not exactly what I said, Blue (although am a bit disturbed that you remember that . I said it again at the start of this thread:

People seeing taxes as 'their' money, or some sort of savings account really does bug me. Once you have paid your tax, it is no longer your money. It's the government's. If you don't like how they are spending it, exercise your democratic right to elect a different government.

That's how you have an opinion, approval or objection to how the government spends its money.

The OP agreed with me.

What I am struggling with is how on earth it is different when somebody (erroneously) says that they've paid their taxes, so they are entitled to get them back, and someone else complains that their taxes are paying for them?

It's completely hypocritical. Taxes are not a savings account, nor are they a benevolent fund. Both statements demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of how the tax system works; yet one is being used to vilify the other. It's bizarre.

And yes, once again it is worth pointing out that a society which has more money in unclaimed benefits bears no resemblance to the society some posters seem to think we live in.

No - you said "it's not your money and never has been". Your justification was that it was never in your possession.

What really bugs me is people who've never paid in and think it's some kind of savings account anyway.

The people who have paid in bug me a lot less.

And the voting? Well do turkeys vote for Christmas? Labour put more people on benefits than ever before. Easy to see the result. Despite the financial shambles Britain was left it, the Conservatives were feared as the party that might shoot the golden goose.

Of course taxes pay for benefits: ridiculous to say they don't. I don't know what you are trying to elide with that argument but really - obviously taxes pay for benefits. I think you are getting into shallow semantic waters there.

I really believe that most people need what they are entitled to.

Blueberties, it's more than a little bit odd that you are quoting me from another thread I was on a long time ago.

If you want, resurrect that thread and I'll argue with you about it on there.

Please quote me from this thread only.

"Of course taxes pay for benefits: ridiculous to say they don't"

I didn't say that taxes don't pay for benefits. I said your taxes don't pay for benefits.

If it's not someone else's personal savings account, what makes it yours?

You only really need shelter, food, water, power, and education and health care. People think they're entitled to a lot more.

Eg after the riots one woman said it wasn't fair on the rioters because they saw "all this stuff" in the shops and they couldn't afford it, so why shouldn't they steal it, was the obvious sequitur.

Bx to that.

People may be entitled to whatever benefits they are getting, but whether or not it's morally right to claim them is another matter. There should be an element of shame involved in not being able to provide for your children and you shouldn't be expecting someone else to pick up the tab.

So for example, before having kids I made damn sure we could afford to clothe, house and feed them and we didn't have more than we could afford.

Simply put, if I'd been in a situation where I'd have had to rely on the state to pay for my kids, I just wouldn't have had them. Now, I know sometimes people fall on hard times through no fault of their own, and the system should absolutely support them (probably MORE than it does at the moment TBH). But I'm sick to the back teeth of seeing people bailed out for what is pure fecklessness.

Example: DH's cousin has just announced her 4th pregnancy, has never had a job, neither has her partner, and they are getting a Surestart payment and a bigger house on the council. This is the fourth contraceptive failure... Given that she knows she's particularly fertile, why the hell doesn't she double up on contraception? I did when I didn't want kids during my 20s - I was terrified of falling pregnant as otherwise there is no way I'd have been able to pay for my kids which I have now.

People see families like that getting everything handed to them on a plate and think "Well if they're doing it, why shouldn't I?"

Not really odd tethers - I was and am absolutely astounded that anyone could think such a thing. I was utterly floored by it and have never forgotten it. I've come across various expressions of entitlement to other people's possessions and money in my time but this took the biscuit and ran away with it. I was stunned.

My taxes pay for benefits.

Do yours not? How did you manage that?

Anyway your wrong not just on a matter of principle or semantics but also in real terms. Contribution-based benefit.

"you're"

excuse me but FUCK

As I said Blueberties, resurrect that thread if you want to continue that argument- unfair on the OP to make her thread about my opinion on another thread a long time ago.

No, my taxes don't and your taxes don't; the revenue collected by the government in taxes is. It's a small difference, but an important one.

I am baffled as to how one person can castigate another for treating the tax system like a savings account, and in the same breath refer to 'my taxes'.

tethersend

What do you actually think would happen if the whole of the UK woke up tommorrow morning and decided to quit their paid employment?

Well - it definitely bears a relation, it's all about entitlement and you mentioned the same views at the top of this thread. I cannot imagine why you are uncomfortable with it.

There's no difference, and definitely not an important one. The money collected by the government is the money paid by me. Steal it and you steal from me.

I castigate people for treating it as a savings account when they've never paid a penny in or might be breaking the law.

Coco, what an odd question.

Please expand on it and I'll give it a go.

"I castigate people for treating it as a savings account when they've never paid a penny in"

Hilarious.

Make your mind up- is it a savings account or not

And - might I say - the money paid in by me was not available when I needed it - purely because it was paid in during the wrong years.

Did I feel entitled and abraded? Sure I did. Do I want my money to go to a bunch of liars, thieves and scroungers who get it despite never paying anything in? Sure I don't.

What makes the money in your bank account yours and not your employer's?

Why is this hilarious?

You are very odd.

"What makes the money in your bank account yours and not your employer's?"

You are extraordinary. Who do you think will take you seriously?

Its quite a simple question.

Just wondering where you think the money for these benefits, free healthcare, education and so on will be found?

""What makes the money in your bank account yours and not your employer's?"

Now, now Blue- you seem to be getting a bit het up...

Flattered as I am that you remember my views from aaages ago (I have to say, your name is not even familiar to me), I think it's best if we keep this debate above the belt; you are doing yourself no favours by making this debate personal. If you have an issue with me, start a thread about it.

If you want to debate the topic in hand, then I'd be happy to

Have you got any more, tethers?

Just wondering whether to get some popcorn.