to loathe this sense of entitlement we hear/read/see everyday

[scuzy]

the idea of some taxes is to pay into a pool for those in genuine need of some kind of benefits. but i am sick to death of people who feel that just because they paid tax for a certain amount of years they can now claim benefits just because they say "its their money". these people are making fraudulent claims but its justified to them because they have paid into the pot so to speak and now its their turn to give up working and relax.

if i hear "i am entitled to ..." one more time i'll smack someone!

we have become a nation of "entitlers".

even my own family ask why do i work x amount of hours when i coudl claim this that and the other. "you are entitled to you know"! er .... no i'm not.

Blue - that just isn't true - that's a sort of 'last resort' position to take.

It is true: it's been the problem on this thread. Neither is it a last resort: it's been said several times on the thread with people urging others not to lump themselves in with fraudsters in their defensiveness. Have a read.

I have lived on and off benefits since I separated about six years ago. Before that, the nature of my employment was a live in job with my ex.
So I had to leave with my son and lost my job and home after fifteen years working for the same organisation.
I'd have been totally screwed without benefits.
As for entitlement, I was lucky enough to have a holiday in quite a posh (for want of a better word) Greek resort this year (I'd inherited some money), and the number of entitled privately schooled young people who sloped around with such an astounding self belief surprised me.
My son at a normal high school seemed so much brighter than so many of them but they're the ones who will succeed in life. My lovely son will as well, but his battle is going to be so much harder.

I have read it. And it takes ages! But I don't see it as you do.

You must have skim read the posts which say exactly what I said they say. It's what people do: they hear what they want to hear, they see what they want to see. It's the way of it.

Well this thread has gone even more bonkers than most benefits threads. So I'll just drop in some statistics and run.

A current survey by Crimestoppers is asking the question "Which of the following fraud types are you most worried about?"

Results as at today:
24.5% Benefit fraud
23.3% Credit/debit card fraud
6.8% Doorstep fraud
31.2% Identity theft
14.4% Scams"

So the concept of benefit fraud apparently causes greater anxiety than credit card fraud. Even though benefit fraud is not against the individual.

The rest of that list is against the individual, and will cause personal grief to victims well beyond the monetary impact. I found it interesting that the pollsters had decided to include any non-individual fraud - and precisely that one. Very Zeitgeist-y.

For context, here's the National Fraud Authority's report for 2010. There's a natty diagram on page 7:
Benefit fraud costs the UK £1.1bn a year
Financial services fraud costs £3.8bn
Tax fraud costs £15.2 bn

ReallY interesting Cage - but even the element of benefit fraud is a tricky cove as we really don't know the real cost, do we?

For this sort of debate, as the poll supports, it's all about perception.

FWIW, I and many others are more concerned by taxation fraud. Not that I worry about it. That's a bit pointless. IT does show a sort of internecine peace between the interested parties involved rather than an internecine war.

I was wondering what the hell a 'single mother's allowance' is?

Blue - your last post says: you don't agree with me, so your interpretation of them is wrong. Or you didn't read them properly.
Well I did read them, and yes I do disagree with you. It;s allowed.

/hijack/

I'm not doing any more stalks for a bit, Pan as I'm a lazy mare they take days to do from scratch. And although it hasn't happened yet, what if I did one and found something bad about a partner? Noooo!

I don't have special means, by the way - it's all open access stuff that credit agencies and genealogists use.

/end hijack/

Can you give us a step-by-step Cage?

In that case, please don't bother! I don't have a partner, and I think I'm clean! It must take a lot of your time, and I 'm just curious about it. I have a friend who is an uber geek of many years standing and he rckons he can do something similar. I don't wish to test him! But thanks for the warning.

/re-hijacks/

I may at some point do a How Not to Be Stalked guide. Doubtless to be followed by some massive clanger and my own public outing. Obviously I don't want to do a How To guide and encourage unwanted stalking, tho.

/releases into wild/

/shoos away/

Stalking powers are NOT to be shared..please.

I know what single mother's allowance is.

It was £6 a week

It got stopped in the early 90s.

When single mothers were the parasite of choice.

In them days it was single mothers who were going to bring down society with their disgusting feckless ways.

So in a way its quite nice the remit has widened to include all benefits claiments.

Equal opps and all that.

jeez this really took off. please note that i am definetely not bashing anyone on benefits. i am in ireland where we are so gone under we are on life support and benefit fraud is rampant. i however am not judging anyone on benefits. after reading all of this i still feel passionate about those claiming benefits when they are not looking for work but feel they deserve a paid break off from work by the government simply because at one point they paid into the system. i still believe this is wrong and this is where my point of "entitlement" comes into play.

i think the point of my OP got lost along the way but i enjoyed reading all the posts. good debate.

Erm...IIRC, Ireland pay a lot more out in benefits to individuals (plus a Christmas bonus) than they do in England and I assume Scotland and Wales anyway. We don't get a Christmas bonus over here!

I think that people say "entitled to" to show that they once held a job that contributed to the public coffers
I think that they feel the need to say this because people who claim benefits, for whatever reason, are routinely bashed scrutinised and sneered at.

Benefits are for those who require them.
It's sad that we have demonised those who need the greatest help.

ERM Solo there is no christmas bonus here and our cost of living is much higher. so erm.

You sound very immature Scuzy, like you're poking your tongue out; charmed, I'm sure!

There was a popular Irish poster (haven't seen her for ages) that told about their Christmas bonus in Ireland!
I don't know about the cost of living over there, but it's not exactly low over here is it?!

I can state with fact there are no christmas bonuses paid on benefits.

our cost of living is higher and we do not have the same benefits of NHS etc. how about paying 50 quid every time you see a doctor and paying high prices for scripts.

as for immature? if thats how you see it? but i dont use "erms" and stupid smiley faces in reply to posters. mine was highlighting the silliness of yours.

Why would you call scuzy immature when you just did the exact same thing? Very odd. She was taking the mickey out of you.

PerryCombover "Benefits are for those who require them. "

Exactly right.

Unfortunately over 30% of the benefit budget goes to those households whose incomes are above the national average (say £35-37k per year). Giving benefits to these households is simply unnecesssary. Moreover, it's also very ineffficient since the government is taking from them via taxation and then giving it back in benefits on the other, minus a huge cost for admin.

i totally agree benefits ARE for those who require them ... not as an option when you decide you no longer want to work. you may qualify for them but how can literally steal from the pot of those more deserving because you simply dont want to work anymore. its like taking paid leave at the tax payers expense!