To want to be sterilised even though I've never had children?

[QueenStromba]

I've been hanging around on Mumsnet for the last 9 months or so. This is partly because this is a fantastic and highly entertaining community to be a part of and party because I was curious about how the other half lived. I've always thought that I didn't want children and would have been happy to be sterilised if I thought that they'd do it for me but didn't think they would due to the fact that I'm 29 and haven't had kids. I just happened to mention to my contraceptive nurse that I would like to be sterilised and she said that they might well do it if I was completely sure that it was what I definitely wanted. I thought about it for months and I spent a long time on mumsnet to try to understand what motherhood is really like. I've decided that it really isn't for me so I'm posting here either for reassurance that if I really don't think it's for me then I should get sterilised or to have a proper argument about it with someone so that I rethink it and decide that I should either wait or not have it done at all.

Thanks for clarification, lollystix :) Agree with what you said - but that's one for the feminism board!

Indeed

Also bear in mind that no operation is perfect, and there is a small failure rate. If your main reason for doing it is that you want to be as sure as possible you won't get pregnant, you should compare that risk with the risks of other long term methods of contraception - some have estimated lower failure rates than surgical sterilisation.

If you're sure it's what you want, then it's entirely your choice, and not an unreasonable one. I would be slightly concerned at some of your reasons though, such as the one about a partner not believing you won't change your mind, and them pressuring you or splitting up with you. I'm sure you would be honest from the start about your feelings, so if someone pressured you anyway, if they were the kind of person to try to push you into doing something you were openly and firmly against, then that would be the problem for the relationship, not your fertility. If that makes any sense?

Personally I would be inclined to go for long-acting contraception instead, mostly because sterilisation is such a final decision I don't really see any need for it given that contraception can be very reliable if used properly.

you might well surprise yourself if you were to become a mother

I'm taking this from the context of a good, thoughtful post, Loopy ... but, blimey! It's a bit of a gamble to take on a future someone's life, isn't it? Maternal bonding doesn't guarantee emotional wisdom - as evidenced by my mother and sisters!

Am I missing something - what is your motivation to get sterilised?

I wouldn't do it at your age - you are still so young, and there are plenty of alternative effective contraceptive methods. You would still need protection from STDs etc.

At 29 you still have so much ahead of you, and you can't really know how you will be affected by events such as relationships, parents dying, even changes in work, health and friendship that can make you reevaluate your life goals. I am in my midthirties, as are many of my friends, and I have seen some complete turnarounds in lifestyles/goals etc. Your thirties is a time of great change.

It could be you are a decisive woman who never changes her mind (unlike me!), but I just cannot see a good enough reason to make your decision so permanent.

It's an odd choice to post this on a parenting website. I wonder if you are hoping to be persuaded to have children - but of course there's nothing anyone can do; it must come from within.

dreamingbohemian: I've had maybe 5 years out of the last 20 where I wasn't depressed. I was depressed constantly from the age of 8 until about 21 with a few instances where i was lucky not to be institutionalised. I climbed out of it for long enough to get a degree but have been mildly depressed for the last 4 years or so and severely depressed for the last year. I was so bad for a month or two this year where I could barely look after myself (if I managed to shower it was a good day) and if I didn't have such a wonderful DP and housemate then I probably would have ended up on the psych ward. I do agree with you that I might have a different outlook if I wasn't depressed but the fact of the matter is that even if I'm depression free for the next 5 years I can never be sure that it won't come back and, being the child of a depressed mother, I wouldn't want to inflict that on a child.

I've been in two or three minds whether to post this, and may regret it ...

... It's fairly common, I believe, for people from unhappy childhoods to have children as a means of healing their own inner child. Some realise this after having a baby, then go forward to treat themselves with guidance, improving both their own lives and their children's by doing so. More, perhaps, continue to love their children without ever loving themselves; some helplessly re-enact a version of what they suffered.

Although it's so often repeated that a baby's not a sticking-plaster, it's pretty normal for babies to be born out of a need for healing. I think that's been shown in several replies to this thread, and I think it's wise of OP to be wary of it.

I know of 2 women who were sterilised in their 20s. Both regretted it

It's your body, your choice.

essure is reversible with a reasonable degree of success, so if you can go for that you are preserving some degree of flexibility in any case.

'As I said above, this is part of the reason why I want to be sterilised - I don't want to ever be in the situation where I have to decide between keeping my relationship or going against my belief that having a child would be both bad for me and the child.'

This is just red flags to me, tbh, and three of my closest friends are childfree by choice, no regrets about that at all.

The two who were childfree and sterilised were in their mid- and late-30s, in good mental health and not in co-dependent relationships, or any relationship at all.

I think you need to do a lot of sorting out in your own self before doing this, sorry if that sounds patronising.

Most PCTs don't fund Essure, either.

Queen, I am sorry things are so rough.

I may have some inkling what you are going through. Like I said, i was depressed for a very long time myself. I have been on a psych ward. I've tried to kill myself. Things were really, really bad for a very long time and I thought they would never get better. I was lucky that I was finally forced to see a psychiatrist who turned out to be fantastic and saved my life really.

It's not that I can sit here and say the depression will never try to come back, the difference is that now I have the tools to keep it from getting really bad again -- things I can do on my own, and knowing what resources I can turn to if I can't handle things on my own. If you were to manage being depression-free for five years, you would undoubtedly gather a set of tools yourself that would give you some confidence and hope that things could continue on a good path.

I know what you mean about not wanting to repeat your own childhood experience -- one of my saddest memories, when I was pregnant, was someone asking me what I would like to do that my own mother did, and I realised I couldn't think of anything

When I was depressed, that was a big reason why I thought kids were a bad idea. Now, I am just sort of proud of myself for overcoming that, and determined not to repeat it, and hopeful that I won't.

One last point: I think that when you're depressed, you end up not wanting to address the depression head on and instead you come up with all kinds of work-around solutions to cope with big life decisions, like work and family etc. I'm not saying your desire for sterilisation isn't genuine, but it also strikes me that you have a lot of very complex and difficult emotions around childhood, family, relationships, etc., and that sterilisation might seem like a straightforward answer to eliminate all these issues without having to actually deal with them.

It's easy for me to sit here and say you should deal with your depression, I can only imagine what you have been through, but at the very least i think you shouldn't do anything that a future version of you might desperately regret.

OK, if you're that sure that you want to be sterilised, why do you need to prepare for the questioning from the doctor? Surely if you are that certain about it you'll already know the answers to the questions, or will be able to bring your thoughts to mind quickly? Doing your revision shouldn't need to come into it.

It's up to you whether you push for this; I don't know what the doctors base their decisions on, but they'd need to be convinced that it would be beneficial to your health, I guess. Given that you've said you've recently come out of a period of severe depression, do you think- and could you convince others- that you have complete clarity and conviction about this fairly major operation and possibly life-changing decision?

I think it's too big a decision to make while you are depressed and any doctor worth his or her salt wouldn't even contemplate allowing you to make such a decision when your mental health is at such a low point.

I don't say this to be mean, I'm just being honest. I think you should be putting your energy into looking after yourself and your mental health before you make any life changing decisions - and I would sincerely hope that any doctor who you ask about being sterilised would think in the same way. You're not in a position to make such a decision if you are depressed.

I am working on getting through my depression garlicbutter and I have managed to get some CBT on the NHS which has helped a lot with my anxiety issues.

LoopyLoopsTootyFroots: Good for you, for me I think that the best way to stop the cycle is to just not have kids in the first place. My sister is two years older than me and also doesn't want children, we're similar hormonally so I consider her my early warning system for broodiness (we got our periods at the exact same age pretty much down to the day).

didoreth: Yes I know that the implant has a lower failure rate than sterilisation but I reacted so badly to it that I had it out after 24 days. My cervix is too high up for me to check the strings on a coil and anyway I wouldn't be willing to try the mirena because of my bad reaction to the implant and I have heavy periods so the copper coil would be a bad idea.

Epiphany: That's just one of my worries. I generally try to drop it into conversation at the flirtation stage that I don't want children so that I don't get into that situation. As you can see from reading this thread though, most people are under the impression that a woman in their 20s or early 30s who doesn't want children will change their mind. A few people up thread mentioned breeder bingo and while that is not my intention here, I have heard most of this before. I even have a male friend who doesn't want children who thinks that I will change my mind about it so of course any potential partner is likely to think the same thing. The aforementioned male friend is on his second girlfriend in a row who wants a child and thinks he can be persuaded into it. I also have a female friend who doesn't want children but had a long term boyfriend who thought she would change her mind about it.

notlettingthefearshow: Protection against STDs would still be an issue if I were to go for a long term method of contraception like some posters have suggested. I'm particularly anal about that though, I still used condoms with my DP for about two weeks while I was on the pill because we were waiting for the results of our STD tests.

garlicbutter: That is also a very good point. When this issue comes up you tend to get a lot of people saying that they never wanted kids and now their DCs are the light of their lives. In my time on mumsnet I've also seen a fair few posts where women have admitted that having children was a big mistake. I even remember seeing one thread by a poster who hadn't wanted children but was persuaded into it by their partner and just wasn't coping with it at all.

I have splinters in my arse from fence sitting on this subject. I am struggling to get a referral for permanant sterilisation due to the fact that I haven't exhausted all other methods of contraception - I do not want to use the implant or the coil so I am left living in fear of my own fertility - I already have 6 children, my family is complete.

I did ask for sterilisation after my first 3 DC and was refused on grounds of my age (22 at the time) and then 8 yrs later I got pregnant again and went on to have a further 2 DC after that

If I had been sterilised at 23 I wouldn't have my younger 3 DC so I am thankful that I was refused at that time

I requested sterilisation again 5 yrs ago after my last child was born and was given the same old shite - left the drs surgery with a fucking big bee in my bonnet and in floods of tears and feeling totally helpless

However I am now 39, have been married for 22 yrs so there is little likelihood that I am going to ever want children with anyone else even if something awful happens to either our relationship or god forbid something happens to him - yet I have still been refused referral because I choose not to try the coil or implant - I am so fucking frustrated and angry

In June this year I got pregnant again - I was mortified but thought I would just suck it up - went for my dating scan being very sure of my dates to be told that the pregnany had stopped at 5w2days and there was no embryo, just a gestational sac and a yolk - my mmc was 'medically managed' and I was given the depo shot on the same day .... it was totally horrific and I bled for 4 weeks afterwards

I have been back to see a different gp but still havent been given a referral so I just feel like I have been pushed to one side

Sorry for such a long post - just had to get it out

When I was 29, many moons ago, I did not have a maternal bone in my body. I knew without a doubt that I would never want children, I just couldn't stand them!

I worked in a large office at the time, lots of the women were having babies and would duly bring them in when a few weeks old. I would shove my dictaphone earphones tight in my head and type furiously, praying they didn't bring them near me. Hoping they thought I hadn't seen them but as every other woman in the place had left their desk to crowd round new mum and baby, I bet they did!

Then I found I was pregnant (contraceptive pill failure) and I was horrified. Horrifed because I realised that I had nearly made the biggest mistake of my life. The realisation that it was other people's children I felt nothing for but my own I loved from the moment I knew I was expecting them. By the time I was 3 months gone with my first she had a whole knitted winter wardrobe :)

I still avoided other children like the plague, really made an effort for birthday parties etc., though. Also loved my furry pets that I thought was all I ever needed, in the end children and pets all grew up together.

Now comes a new problem, grandchildren. All my friends have them and one is soon to be a grandmother for the first time. It's all I hear about and sometimes I wish she would change the subject. And, I get told "never mind, you will have some soon". My instant thought is I so hope not!!

So I am thinking, hoping that it is the same. Other peoples grandchildren leave me cold. but my own will be different. Fingers crossed!

CArnivalBizarre - so sorry that your GPs seem unable to help you at all - that's not good!

QueenStromba - thank you for coming back and explaining. Your reasoning is clear, it makes sense but I still believe the only thing you haven't accounted for is that bizarrest of things, the biological clock, which may still come and bite you later.

Now I have to say that in my late 20s I had exactly the same reaction to babies and children that you describe and was sure I had no maternal instinct - in fact, those of my friends who had or were planning to have children were either determined to make me hold their sprogs, or were worried I'd stop speaking to them when they did have them. I didn't like holding the babies, it did nothing for me except make me panic. I also have extreme noise tolerance ishoos and was concerned I would be one of those women who smother their screaming baby.

That can go.

Re. the noise tolerance - I was going to get army grade ear defenders for when DS was born so I didn't go mad from his crying - but (and I still find this incredible) it didn't bother me that much. His whining drives me batty now but he stops soon enough.

However - the depression issue is, I believe, far more relevant. If you have severe depression and you have troubles managing it (Are you on drugs for it?) then having a baby is possibly going to put more stress on you than you would be able to handle. You know first hand what having a depressed mother is like and don't wish to put another child through it (I hate to say it but that does show the tiniest maternal inkling there - you care about a theoretical child's wellbeing even when it doesn't exist) which makes sense. You also don't want to push yourself over the depression "edge" - makes sense again. You have a DP who is also a depressive - he doesn't want to go over the edge either.

Your thoughts that you have inherited no maternal gene from your mother and grandmother are dubious - it is far more likely that their own depression contributed to their regrets than that they "had no maternal gene" (there isn't one!) and people who have had the most godawful "mothering" (for want of a better word) often do as garlicbutter says, try to heal their own inner child by having a baby and loving it as they believe a mother should.

So in conclusion to my rather rambling and far-too-long post, I think your reasons are valid because you are both depressed - but that's it. The rest could change or doesn't really hold up - the depression is real, current and in both of you - so use that as your main reason for wanting to go ahead with your sterilisation.

I'm sorry to hear about the problems you've had CarnivalBizarre. You should try with yet another GP to get a referral. Are you registered at a large practice? When I started having really painful periods due to the pill I phoned up the surgery and asked the receptionist who would be the best doctor to see for gynea problems. I spent the last three weeks trying to get an appointment with her about this. She tried to persuade me to get a mirena but I told her that I wasn't willing to try it since I had a really bad reaction to the implant and so she gave me the referral.

Hah, Thumb, you might think you're rambling but I nodded along to your post, thinking "Why didn't I put it like that?"

Especially your concluding paragraph. Seconded.

Thanks garlicbutter! :)

hmmm, i think it is probably early but it is up to you of course. be prepared to live with your regrets or enjoy your decision depending on what happens.
however, i think listening to people moaning about parenting on mumsnet is a very bad way to make a decision on this. people come on for support when they most need it and can be honest, and often depressed. people don't tend to post the happy stuff because they don't need support. So i'm not going to start a thread saying how happy it made me when i watched by 2yo DD dance today, but it did. Just bear that in mind when you weigh up what you read on mumsnet.
all the best whatever your decision.

Carnival, see someone at your nearest family planning clinic instead and be firm, very very firm.

Keep chasing it up and seeing other docs till you get it through their heads that this is the option for you.

They want you on coil or implant because it's cheap.

Even better if your husband has the snip, however.

Not having children is a perfectly valid life choice and your reasons do sound sensible, far too many people assume having children will fix themselves or their relationships and bring children into situations which aren't good for the children or adults involved.

However, I totally agree with the posters who are saying that making the decision, while you are depressed, that your depression is a reason never to have them is probably not the best idea. Not wanting children may well be a permanent state for you but I think it's a choice you need to make when you are in a better place mentally than just coming out of a deep depression.

Hormonal forms of contraception don't always mix well with depression so I can see why you'd want to move away from them but have you done any research into the reversible sterilisation mentioned here? Is it something you might be able to afford if it had to be done privately? I know before I had a tattoo I looked into tattoo removal so I knew what it would take if I did change my mind, maybe not comparable but making the point that just because it's permanent doesn't mean it's irrevocable IYSWIM.

In your position I'm not sure I could do something so permanent but I do think it's a brave choice. If you do change your mind but aren't able to have children the only person you're hurting is yourself, if you choose to bring children into the world when you know you're not capable of looking after them properly then it damages them as well as yourself.