I don't agree with the MN feminists. AIBU?

[jennyvstheworld]

I consider myself an active proponent of equality of opportunity and a stern critic of discrimination... and yet I find that I can't identify with many of the viewpoints I encounter on the MN feminism page (and often say so). AIBU?

CN, I had a little giggle at that too

Claw....some women are comfortable with their gender (traditional) roles and assume that they cannot be feminists.

Ridiculous comparison, my politics and intelligence are not my user name. Are yours? Anyfucker, ditto darling.

Labelle maybe it is!

I believe in equal rights, but ive never called myself a feminist. Perhaps because i dont activately do anything about it. But is it about being active or belief!

Thanks Professionally, i will take a look.

Captainnancy, sorry i shouldnt have generalised, i should have said 'most' or 'majority'. Surely the majority of women believe in equal rights? (or i could be wrong again!)

I don't think you can treat and therefore discount the "MN feminists" as a homeogeneous group.

However, having always considered myself to be a feminist (why wouldn't I?) I have been repeatedly stunned by some of the comments on there and do perceive there to be a clique whic doesn't welcome outsiders.

There also very much seems to be a culture of "one rule for us and one rule for them" That is to say regulars can post the most extreme and bizarre points and even those who clearly disagree will nod along saying "hmmm well I kind of think I know what you are saying" where as an "outsider" gets jumped upon at the first opportunity.

The constant barrage of "rape apologist" everytime anyone strays to far from the "all sex is rape" mantra is tiresome.

YANBU to fail to identify with the general tenor of the board.

It is not a case of 'believing in equal rights'. It's a case of recognising

a) that women as a group do not in fact enjoy 'equal rights' to men;
b) that this is unjust;
c) that something needs to be done about it.

milkmilklemonade, lighten up darling

anybody would think you were a humourless frother

TheQueenOfDenial i agree - i think that is how a lot of MN is at the moment (i am new so dont know it is always like this or it is just a phase...)

For me, it's about "calling" unfair treatment of women where I see it; promoting a fair environment for girls and women in what is still a male dominated world; and trying to ensure that we all (men and women) have equal treatment and access to education, healthcare, security, etc.

I've always been like this. I blame Andy Pandy. I asked my mother why Looby Loo couldn't play with Andy and Teddy and she told me it was because Looby was a girl. I was outraged. I would have been about 2.5 years old. [Disclaimer - this will mean little to you if you were born after about 1979]

Erm, while I don't want to drag up the smear test thread again, it's worth pointing out that there were plenty of people who disagreed with the OP.

It's also worth pointing out that gyneacological examinations have historically been something administered to women by a male class (the vast majority of doctor's were men until comparatively recently) and have historically been the subject of misogyny and women's protest, as this wiki article on the Contagious Diseases Act makes very clear. So the OP was hardly pointing out anything revolutionary.

Personally I love the feminism board, and find it extremely welcoming. For the benefit of anyone who hasn't ventured over there and may take the charges of 'unfriendliness' on face value: there are threads that are more fractious than others; there are threads in which a 'Feminism 101' is inappropriate; but there have ALSO been plenty of threads specifically welcoming newbies and actively seeking that they post their questions.

Hagocrat said that much better than I did!

QueenOfDenial, isn't that true on all the boards on MN though?

There are also regular posters on the feminist board who are exceptionally patient and welcoming to new arrivals, or those with simple questions.
The Friendly Face of Feminism.
You Know Who You Are.

YANBU to disagree with them.
YABU to generalise many feminists who post there as having the same/similar opinions and as 'MN Feminists'.

I consider myself to be a feminist but I disagree with other feminists too on some things. Debate is healthy and we learn from it. Disagreeing is not bad.

Excellent statement of the situation by Hagocrat there.

I don't think that it has had the effect that the OP might have wanted, it hasn't turned nasty and isn't full of people slaging off feminism per se.

Not aimed at you specifically, Goblin, but 'patience' should not always mean 'prepared to go round and round in circles justifying every tenet of one's feminist conviction'. At least MN feminism has started many threads saying hello to newbies, or lurkers; there are many, many feminist online spaces where questions from newbies will simply be referred to Feminism 101. It can seem unfriendly, but most feminist spaces operate on the proviso that most posters roughly agree on Feminism 101 and if not, perhaps they would be happier posting elsewhere. On some threads (particularly those concerned with real life cases of abuse) it isn't appropriate for a poster to use a real live woman's case to talk out their standpoint on rape. If they then get a rough time, I find it hard to sympathise with their complaints.

I agree Victor, but as in all areas of life, some women like the chance to talk and explain and clarify without being evangelical and some don't.
I'm grateful to those who do, in whatever sphere I'm trying to learn about.
And yes, I do know that the feminist board is primarily a discussion space and not intended to educate.

I am a Mumsnetter.
I am a feminist.
Am I therefore a Mumsnetter feminist, a feminist Mumsnetter or just confused?

Sorry Hagocrat i should have put believing in equal rights for women, which i do, i generalised because i believe in equal rights for everyone, regardless of age, sex, colour etc, etc.

Having read the links, it seems that feminist means different things to different women.

Goblin, that really wasn't aimed at you, honest! I like explaining and talking (and yes, educating, if I could claim that, which I probably can't), but I find those who complain about the feminist board are the ones who don't want to talk - unless it's about their point of view. So many threads follow the pattern of many feminists explaining to one non-feminist. A previously complex, multi-stranded discussion gets shaved down to a single issue. And round and round we go.

What do you mean by 'evangelical', though? Plenty of posters have had a long time to refine and think about their views, and they hold them strongly. If I don't agree with them, it's no skin off my nose - we're all working for women's equality, after all...

I commented way up this thread about hiding the Feminism topic, and since that post I have been reading with interest all the views on this particular thread.

FWIW The reasons why I hid the topic in the first place included a thread about "why does a bride have to be given away" and the OP questioned why women were perceived as just an object (or possession) to be given from one man to the other.

I don't see it as that in this day and age, I see it purely as a traditional thing which was one of my fathers proudest moments (walking his daughter down the aisle) I know I'm not an object to be passed around, my father also knows that (my ex-husband OTOH did not know, hence the ex part ) but I felt most of the threads I was reading (for me) was just picking holes in everything - so it got a little tedious IMO.

So today, I ventured into the Feminism boards just to either a)remind myself why I have hidden the subject or b)find something that I did actually have an opinion on and wish to discuss further. Unfortunately, there was nothing I wanted to contribute to - maybe it's just a slow day in the feminism topic, or maybe I'm not that arsed who knows :)

BUT

I'm struggling for time here so apologies if I have not explained properly but I wanted to say thanks to ProfessionallyOffendedGoblin for providing those links, I will have a read and then make a more educated decision on whether I feel I ought to "hide" or "get involved"

Disclaimer - not that any of you are bothered whether I get involved or not, I just wanted to explain my posistion that's all and thank POG for providing answers for me as to what being a feminist is all about....

Initially I just wanted a checklist and then a score at the end..for example Congratulations you are 48% feminist so please hide the topic or Congratulations you are 85% feminist, read on and get involved

SAF - did you ever find a thread on September School starters?