feral teenage mum rioter- does she deserve her council flat and her child?

[porcamiseria]

www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23977196-shame-of-the-mother-who-saw-her-bad-daughter-looting-in-tottenham.do

I get that there are underlying issues, and that castigating the "scum" underclass is not going to acheive anything but this story for me, epitimises things

how can anyone defend her right to be a mother, and her right to benefits and a council flat? now she will go to prison, her poor child will either go to his grandmother or into care, and the cycle continues

something needs to be done to disincentivise girls like this from having children. I am not advocating sterilisation, or having kids wrought off their mothers in labour ward BUT we have a society where girls like this have babies, and they are the kids that end up rioting

people say that education and support is the answer, but in some cases people should NOT have any more kids and I think we are being far too liberal, she's a bad un. end of.

The defence of the rioters and their criminality I keep reading on MN is truly staggering.

I've heard some excuses for the rioters over the past week but this thread takes the biscuit! Until someone can show me that their MP incited or took part in rioting, arson, looting, mugging, criminal damage, animal cruelty, assault and murder - I will continue to hold our MPs in higher esteem that the rioters. Don't forget - MPs did go to prison following the expenses scandal- and rightly so. But do you seriously think that the expenses scandal is a valid excuse to riot, arson and murder on our streets??

The Uk has a generous welfare system - too generous in some ways - and yet still people bleat on about social deprivation. So far, I haven't heard of a single rioter who was 'of no fixed address' - so if the homeless didn't jump on the rioting bandwagon what the hell excuse does anyone else have? It was quoted extensively at the time 'we don't need the money, but we'll show the police we can do what we like' or some such rubbish.

Oh, and Fred Goodwin got to keep his pension because of the incompetence of the last Labour government. Some of the labour MPs helped themselves to public money too. But I'm sure it's much more convenient to blame the Tories. I am neither - I voted libdem in last election - look where that got me!

It's important to separate the initial uprising from the subsequent riots and looting. Social unrest always go this way. When there is genuine legitimate anger it always gets co-opted by a small minority who tip the balance into violence and lawlessness. That doesn't mean the original anger isn't valid.

Chicken makes good points about the reasons for the riot and how we should listen to them. That doesn't mean we shouldn't condemn those found guilty of looting or violence. We should punish the wrongdoers but we must also look at the underlying reasons or it will simply keep happening.

BTW, since less than 2% of single mothers are unmarried teenagers (most being mid-30s, divorced and in paid employment), and of those 2% most rise to the challenge and are good parents, putting them all in mother-and-baby units is hardly likely to make any difference whatsoever.

"The government is suggesting that rioters who are also benefit claimants should be treated differently under the law. "
No they aren't.

The London riot began with a peaceful demonstration by the family of Mark Duggan in Tottenham - they have consistently condemned the riots and violence.

The Blackberry messages inciting the riots had nothing to do with social deprivation:

^'If you're down for making money we're about to go hard in East London tonight'

'We're not broke but who says no to free stuff'

'pure terror & havoc & free stuff'^

Doesn't say much about social deprivation to me.

Exactly, those involved were just thugs out for a laugh and a good time, not trying to convy any message

Btw, re. social deprivation - I support of charities for the homeless. I find it despicable and unbelievable that in this day and age we have so many out on our streets with no hope. Statistics show that homeless people are more likely to be victims of crimes than perpetrators.

The REAL socially deprived of this country were NOT the ones out rioting - and Chicken, it is insulting that you seem to think this is a valid excuse.

What about the estimates than a quarter of homeless men are ex-armed forces - people who have possibly seen real combat for the sake of their countries? What about the teenage runaways escaping abuse? Council accommodation IS a privilege - not a right- if it was a right, there would be no homelessness. It IS government subsidised (which is why the Tories hate it!) and those who are lucky enough to get it are bound by terms and conditions which they must abide by.

No Daphne, its not government subsidised. It is provided by us so that those on a low income have somewhere decent and affordable to live. We dont make a profit out of it, that is the difference.

They are attempting to treat rioters by a different law to everyone else. No-one else would be forced out of their home like this.

No homeowner would ever think it fair to be forced out of their house because their child had got into trouble. Its absolutely ridiculous!

ChickenLickn what the fuck are you talking about my sister is a nurse has a mortgage if she was caught looting she would of lost her job as she has to have a clean crb she then would have of lost her home as their would be no money to pay mortgage.

Sorry but if your that worried about theses people why don't you let them come stay with you have some of her wonderful parenting skills rub off on your family

Didn't think so

I am sure now that those people from the professions who were involved in the riots have lost their jobs.

"The government should break the law by evicting innocent people, because they will show people that its wrong to break the law!"

Hahaha

"only people who have paid off their mortgage are allowed to break the law"

Agreeing with ChickenLickn here. The kneejerk reaction is absurd.

Chicken - who is the 'us' that you refer to that provides council housing?

The 'us' is taxpayers.

Well then it is government subsidised - government money is taxpayers money.

We are the government.

Agree with Chickenlickn here.

Eviction is madness and not related to the crime.

We are NOT the government! We ELECT the government.

Those involved in the rioting and destruction should be made to help clean up the community which they destroyed. I think that its unfair for those not involved directly to loose their council houses and benefits, but a harsh custodial sentence and community would be more appropriate

Semantics Daphne...political semantics.

Good call Piglet.

meant community work for those involved in destroying and looting, and education too, so that they realise how hard people work to have those businesses, it was not only the large companies that were destroyed and looted, but small independent shops. There was one man speaking on LBC today whose shop was looted, that he will have to pay out 12k to have new glass fitted in his shop

Oh, absolutely - I haven't said that I necessarily agree with evictions involving other vulnerable householders - but that council housing is government subsidised, and as such is a privilege.

And why is it semantics? We're in a democracy, not Marxist Russia. You want to 'be' in the government you need to be elected by your peers.

It's not that important Daphne.

Householders shouldn't be evicted unless they are getting long sentences.

Even if the Government is using money from us to subsidise them.

Organic - It's not that important to you, maybe, because your posts were incorrect!!

Not one single person has been evicted yet - they have only been served an eviction notice. These cases will then be seen by a District Judge - who will have to take into account dependents also living at the address.

Yes, it probably is a bit of a knee jerk reaction giving eviction notices so soon - but the lady in question also has £1,800 odd rent arrears as well - so she's not even paying for her council house! It is quite clear that councils want to make an example of the rioters - and there is an argument that it could serve as a deterrent for the future.

Maybe next time somebody might just think 'I'll get a prison sentence or get evicted from my council house' and not be tempted to join in the looting.

That is only my opinion - I am entitled to it as you are entitled to yours.

Settle down Daphne you're getting worked up.

I didn't say anyone had been evicted yet.

And my posts were correct in as much as they are my opinion.

Stop trying to be my moral compass and enjoy life.

Organic, nothing about my posts was remotely worked up - but I'm afraid that whole 'we are the government' stuff was just a bit silly and incorrect on your part.