feral teenage mum rioter- does she deserve her council flat and her child?

[porcamiseria]

www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23977196-shame-of-the-mother-who-saw-her-bad-daughter-looting-in-tottenham.do

I get that there are underlying issues, and that castigating the "scum" underclass is not going to acheive anything but this story for me, epitimises things

how can anyone defend her right to be a mother, and her right to benefits and a council flat? now she will go to prison, her poor child will either go to his grandmother or into care, and the cycle continues

something needs to be done to disincentivise girls like this from having children. I am not advocating sterilisation, or having kids wrought off their mothers in labour ward BUT we have a society where girls like this have babies, and they are the kids that end up rioting

people say that education and support is the answer, but in some cases people should NOT have any more kids and I think we are being far too liberal, she's a bad un. end of.

I think that teen mums should live either with their families or in a supported group home. I think it is positively child abuse to send some teenager to a grotty flat all on her own and expect her to cope with a baby. I'm sure some do but it must be very hard. They need parenting skills and support. Not just food and shelter.

I think we should assume that as we are the only ones capable of having babies then we will pay the ultimate price should precautions fail. During my teenage years and beyond I made 100% certain that I didnt get pregnant.

Trice - I agree. Putting them in flats and expecting them to cope... I found it difficult and I was in my 30's with my DH to help. However, what gov would dare start moving them into hostels...

pamsco

call me old fashioned but the following would classify as being a bad mum

getting evicted for antisocial behaviour from your flat
being so vile even your own mum is scared of you
leaving your kids to go loot JD sports with yer gang

sorry if it offends you but it fucks me off!

I bet you anything her boy will have a crappy childhood, its a cycle

earlier in the thread I said a type of home for mums like this would be ideal, and I never advocated sterilisatons

so dont take it so fucking personally, by slating her am I slating you? NO

I dont live in a perfect world, but I went to school with kids like these and they fuck me off, some are victims I agree, some are beyond redempton

I'm not taking anything personally I'm holding a mirror up to your words as it is people like you that widen the gulf.

I'm not calling you old fashioned - I don't think you are. I think you are very modern in your outlook. That's what saddens me. We have lost the idea of societal responsibility - your modernity is wanting to cast people out.

I'm old fashioned as I'd bring back apprenticeships and national services (but opened up to both genders) give people a sense of self-discipline and self-worth.

You act as judge and jury based on some over-hyped media article. I think that is despicable.

Take that personally.

Hi Pam, just like you I am a higher rate tax payer. I wasnt the product of a teenage mum but my mother was a single mum for a number of years. It made it difficult but I dont remember the sense of entitlement that some kids have nowadays (it makes me sound 105!). I went back to our old house a couple of months ago and tbh - it was run down, the road was scruffy and it clearly wasnt the best part of town!

However, I dont remember feeling like that when I was living there. With the spring in the middle of the bed that I needed to avoid because we couldnt afford a replacement matteress. Not the end of the world but I will never forget that spring... And I agree - self discipline is so important. Who was it who said 'dont think what your country can do for you, think what you can do for your country' (Kennedy I think).

When I left school I got a job, we all did, I dont remember benefits as such. Started off in admin type roles and then joined a big corporate and didnt look back.

Still think you are the sort of role model that school kids need to see, show them they can aspire.

But the government need to be tough, do an apprenticeship, or get a job, but dont offer an alternative, dont allow kids to claim benefits for whatever reason, teenage mum, etc. If the consequences of ones's actions are felt by YOU as opposed to others I think some might think more carefully what they do.

Rocky you hit the nail on the head (where you using a brick?) you describe your background and I described mine. We both say we didn't feel the sense of entitlement that the "kids today" do.

Do you know why?

Because there is no connection to teenage or single mums and what is happening in the last week.

The true cause of the looting - I refuse to use the word riot as it implies a political motivation - is not with the absent fathers and the young parents. It is with materialism, lack of self respect, and a feeling of having nothing to lose.

When you don't respect yourself you can't respect others. There are many ways to address that but given it has taken decades to unravel our society it'll take decades to fix.

I'm a liberal but no bleeding heart - military or community conscription. Not as a punishment but as the norm for all school leavers (at any age).

I truly think that if someone wants to have a child fine, as long as they can afford to house, feed, clothe that child without holding a hand out for everyone else to pay the cost.

The benefit system should be there only as a safety net for those who do it right and for no fault of their own find they need short term help, it should not be a never ending hand out to people who see it as an easy ride

Fact is a pregnant 16 year old girl can go down to her local authority and demand a council flat. She won't have to bother with things like ever having worked, and the Government will probably go out of their way to help her with courses and even college to give her something to do to pass the time.

Whereas a teenager who tries to work, look after herself, educate herself without going on benefits, will get nothing from the state !!!!!!

I am very pro-single mothers by the way. Many of us know how hard it is to be one. But teenage mothers milking the system, pulllleeez!

Pamsco, there is a link IMO. Because it is the same philosophy: "something for nothing, and work the system".

CAN WE PLEASE STOP CALLING HER A BAD GIRL!

bad girls like her, jesus. do you know how awful that sounds? ive only read 3 pages but it dousnt sound like shes even stolen anything.

very very unkind by MOTHERS who you would think, judging on most parenting advice on here would rather go to then ends of the earth than call a child or teenager "bad".

Im very dissapointed, although really not shocked

jane all 16-19 year olds are allowed free college courses-why shouldnt the government encourage education? just because shes had a baby?

hardly milking the system

who looks after the baby? and who pays to look after the baby?

and perhaps 16-19 years are allowed college courses, but not free flats and benefits.

so it is a scam!

i am not being funny like innit but i iz not riotin' in the rain blad 'cos my hoodie will get wet and mi granny won't borra me da one wiv da spots on it innit like blad

reeee spek

LOL Custardo

I find my special rioting mac (Boden issue) to be very useful when it is rainin innit. And it has a hood as well.

Opinionated-

how on EARTH is 'making people homeless' going to help the rioting problem?

Homeless people are destitute and have to steal to eat. They bring up children who, having been abused by society by having their parents thrown onto the street, embark on lives of crime that would make looting shops look like crumb throwing in the park.

Have people no common sense anymore? And they call the rioters thick.

If you behave like a criminal piece of shit in your own society why should your society subsidize your housing??? I doubt these people would be "homeless" - since they are young and fit enough to be criminals I am sure they will be able to get a roof over their heads no problem; they are hardly "vulnerable" in the normal sense of the word e.g. disabled or aged.

jane, opinionated is talking about making people with their own homes homeless as well. Not that imho making people in state housing is any better or worse than that. It just assumes that homelessness will be some sort of cure for criminal behaviour. LOL!!

also, I'd love to know what the eviction squad would like to do with the children involved here. Some rioters were presumably living with parents or grandparents. Presume you think said (innocent of crime) parents or grandparents should be evicted along with their criminal offspring? Teach em a lesson about parenting that, wouldn't it.

oh, and yes, presume teenage mums who committed the heinous crime of e.g. receiving stolen goods shoudl be evicted too and their children put in foster care? Great solution, that, dead cost-effective too

this anger is all about punishment of the usual social suspects. It is ugly, and usually misogynistic, hatred. Only 5% of the rioters and looters were female but all the right wingers are banging on about teenage mums and how they should have their kids taken away for rioting etc. Because everything BAD is all about teen mums, in the rightwing imagination.

Sickening, all of it. Makes me want to stand in the way of the next rioter's brick and get knocked out hopefully for a decade or two.

pamsco

i seem to have a prejudice against teenage mums, maybe I do

and this thread has made me think as I clearly have offended alot of people

i cannot say my opinion of this mum has changed

but I am have learnt something about myself, and its not too nice the feeling i have

the thing that scares me is I cant see how I can change this prejudice, but clearly it IS a prejudice in me

depressing

porca more power to you for reconsidering and being honest about it. Really I mean that- it takes a very brave and thoughtful person to rethink and not just retrench themselves in increasingly extreme positions.

btw you didn't offend me for one, I just disagreed with you and I'm sorry if at any point it seemed personal.

thanks breaktime