to think some people's attitudes are disgusting?

[TheRhubarb]

A thread about a thread and a sense of despair. There is a thread on mumsnet suggesting that babies be taken from parents at birth if the parents are, in her words "scum". Is this what we have become?

As much as I loathe and detest what the rioters have done let's take a step back here. There have been riots in Greece over cuts, protests in Ireland, Italy, France and Spain. All we've had so far are a few half-hearted protests whilst the government pisses off on yet another holiday and banks and energy companies publish record profits yet again. Were these riots not predicted at all?

You have generations of children born into families who have never worked and who live in a cycle of poverty. The charities and organisations that worked tirelessly to keep youths off the streets and give them hope have been disbanded due to cuts. So far 2,220 charities have been directly affected, the largest number in Birmingham and the second largest in London. Research also shows the the most deprived areas are those which are hardest hit.

When you live in a society that bombards you with images of footballers wives sunning themselves on holiday and you have a government that decided to all take their holidays at the same time whilst many families are forced to cancel their holidays then you can have some understanding of the hotbed of anger and resentment. Job losses are huge, benefits cut, the maintenance allowance to enable youths to go to college is scrapped, petrol prices are huge, energy prices up again and everyone is blaming each other.

I'm sorry but when a society breaks down you have to look deeper than just parental influence, you have to look at what help there is available. Because as a society we are all responsible for what happens. We all have a part to play and just pointing the finger of blame at so called 'scum' is offensive and narrow minded. If there are scum out there then we, as a society created them. This country is in danger of becoming as corrupt as Italy. The energy companies get away with murder, no-one now bats an eyelid at petrol price hikes, the banks are still making huge profits and the government are targeting the poorest to make them pay for the mistakes of the rich. Where there is corruption on this scale there will be riots.

There is no excuse for tearing apart people's businesses or burning down homes, but just pointing the finger of blame at each other will not help.

Rant over.

this is what happens when you keep giving people more and more stuff for no effort, they just want to keep taking taking taking, with no aspiration to do stuff for themselves and they think they are entitled to have it just because they want it.

combine that with poor parenting, ineffective justice and teaching and you have a recipe for disaster

The riots are not protests, they are outbursts of anger and resentment from disaffected youths who have no understanding of the damage and fear they cause because they feel completely disattached from society.

And of course you have opportunisitic thieves as you have always had in society. Some of these people may never have stolen so much as a biscuit before, but present them with an opportunity and they go for it, because of the adrenalin more than anything.

But I'm not here to justify their actions or the riots. No-one can justify what happened and is happening in London, Birmingham and Manchester.

What I am saying is that blaming parents, setting up vigilante facebook groups, spewing out hateful remarks about children is wrong and two wrongs do not make a right.

Twice now I have commented that not all the rioters were working class kids. Some were professional adults. A graphic designer, future soldier and an educated university graduate were among those in court for rioting. But of course that is ignored because people like to assume that lawless teenagers were responsible as they are presumably easier to hate and judge.

Are you mental? Who said we've not been on benefits? We HAVE, we nearly lost our house last year due to unemployment and my husbands ill health after that. Do not profess to know what I have and haven't been through. Just as loads of poor, unemployed poor people have not turned to causing major disruption and THEFT and violence simply because they know they can get away with it.

I havent posted on the threads with nasty titles. Totally agree with you rhubarb (I assume you are the original rhubarb).

The majority of them here are young kids. Juveniles. Yes they are exceptions to the rule as you stated but the vast majority are not.

Bimbo, why don't you contribute on the other hate-filled thread?

You act as judge, jury and executioner without even stopping for breath.

Do you really think that going hysterical and hunting down these people with vigilante groups is the answer? Do you think that calling children scum is acceptable? That making remarks about taking kids away at birth from parents is ok? Is that your answer?

Bimbo nobody's disputing that the behaviour has been absolutely abhorrent, but why do you think they behave this way? Because they are just bad kids, evil?

Wow fargate, thanks for that scintillating character assasination

Its a fact imho that im not afraid to express due to appeasing the hug a hoodie gang that some kids really would be better off if they were taken away from their parents at birth. Better still not made but thats a whole other debate.

Because they have shit parents and there are no consequences to criminal behaviour in this society.

this is what happens when you keep giving people more and more stuff for no effort, they just want to keep taking taking taking, with no aspiration to do stuff for themselves and they think they are entitled to have it just because they want it

So very true.

There was a young girl on TV...probably no more than 16/17yrs. When she was asked why she was looting, she said "We're claiming back our taxes"

Like she's ever bloody paid any

A lot of kids ARE taken away from their parents at birth.

So why are their parents shit?

Thanks for this post Rhubarb and thanks for articulating it so well.

Dont be so mean, she is just misunderstood and the product of a damanged society...plus she NEEDS an iphone!

Where did the shit parents come from then? The total lack of attempt at understanding is really quite pathetic. There are layers, people, your simplistic ideas of blame are far too easy.

God this place is depressing at the moment. Thank fuck I'm not in the UK if this is the bloody atmosphere.

they are outbursts of anger and resentment from disaffected youths who have no understanding of the damage and fear they cause because they feel completely disattached from society.

That can only be the fault of the parents. If nobody has taught them empathy and understanding, right from wrong, that can only be blamed on the people who have brought them up.

You can't blame a city lawyer, doctor, universtity lecturer, nurse, teacher for taking opportunities presented to them and working hard and then enjoying the benefits of what they have worked for just because that means they have things that others don't.

Some were professional adults. A graphic designer, future soldier and an educated university graduate were among those in court for rioting.

They are exactly the same as anyone else who was rioting. Just because they were educated, doesn't mean they are any better or any worse than anyone else who was rioting. I judge people by their actions, whether they are uneducated teenagers or phd graduates.

"The riots are not protests, they are outbursts of anger and resentment from disaffected youths who have no understanding of the damage and fear they cause because they feel completely disattached from society."

So how did these outbursts miraculously target phone shops, electrical retailers and sports wear shops yet miss the likes of Sainsburys and Hobbycraft right next door?

You can call me hateful all you like, im just realistic and sick of scumbags ruining life for others. You can blither on about evil society being to blame as much as you like but personality responsibility is whats missing these days nothing else.

Bimbo nobody's disputing that the behaviour has been absolutely abhorrent, but why do you think they behave this way? Because they are just bad kids, evil?

Bimbo has every right to her opinion....which I am sure many share.

As for the above..
Why do people behave badly? Sometimes there really are no excuses. People should be held accountable for the way they behave...and I think some people are just bad, greedy, selfish and lazy and seriously don't give a toss about anyone other than themselves.

You can blame society, poverty...whatever you like...but poverty has always existed...and not gone hand in hand with violence, theft and disorder.

I'm not disputing for a second that these people have shown a complete lack of humanity and some of the stuff I saw yesterday actually turned my stomach. But making a thinly-veiled argument for eugenics is NOT the answer.

Theres another problem with the "blame the parents" motif. Not long ago they were kids too, so at what point did they become the focus. When they had children, before that, after that? Do we blame their parents? And so on and so on....what happened to set off the chain though?

I would like to see a lot more fluffiness, empathy and sympathy for the innocent victims of what's gone on....

I think the Journalist in Croydon summed it up when he pointed out Currys Electricals and JJB Sports had been looted...yet Waterstones (in the middle of the two shops) was left alone.

Perhaps the poor little darlings had enough books but not enough £100 trainers, Iphones and laptops