to think some people's attitudes are disgusting?

[TheRhubarb]

A thread about a thread and a sense of despair. There is a thread on mumsnet suggesting that babies be taken from parents at birth if the parents are, in her words "scum". Is this what we have become?

As much as I loathe and detest what the rioters have done let's take a step back here. There have been riots in Greece over cuts, protests in Ireland, Italy, France and Spain. All we've had so far are a few half-hearted protests whilst the government pisses off on yet another holiday and banks and energy companies publish record profits yet again. Were these riots not predicted at all?

You have generations of children born into families who have never worked and who live in a cycle of poverty. The charities and organisations that worked tirelessly to keep youths off the streets and give them hope have been disbanded due to cuts. So far 2,220 charities have been directly affected, the largest number in Birmingham and the second largest in London. Research also shows the the most deprived areas are those which are hardest hit.

When you live in a society that bombards you with images of footballers wives sunning themselves on holiday and you have a government that decided to all take their holidays at the same time whilst many families are forced to cancel their holidays then you can have some understanding of the hotbed of anger and resentment. Job losses are huge, benefits cut, the maintenance allowance to enable youths to go to college is scrapped, petrol prices are huge, energy prices up again and everyone is blaming each other.

I'm sorry but when a society breaks down you have to look deeper than just parental influence, you have to look at what help there is available. Because as a society we are all responsible for what happens. We all have a part to play and just pointing the finger of blame at so called 'scum' is offensive and narrow minded. If there are scum out there then we, as a society created them. This country is in danger of becoming as corrupt as Italy. The energy companies get away with murder, no-one now bats an eyelid at petrol price hikes, the banks are still making huge profits and the government are targeting the poorest to make them pay for the mistakes of the rich. Where there is corruption on this scale there will be riots.

There is no excuse for tearing apart people's businesses or burning down homes, but just pointing the finger of blame at each other will not help.

Rant over.

singforsupper - Sadly you are right, some mothers who have their babies taken away, go on to have more babies that are also taken away. But I don't see what we can do about that. I don't agree with enforced sterilisation.

What we shouldn't do is respond to that situation by saying that we shouldn't take away the babies in the first place.

I think people who don't have personal experience find it hard to believe how terrible a small number of parents can be and that you are very unlikely to change them.

I certainly dont support vigilante action as much as i'd like to see these awful people get some sort of comeuppance. Ideally being sent to prison where it is actually scary for them and not seen as some sort of rite of passage amongst their peers.

lesley, I agree there are parents like that and there are actually not that many REALLY good parents anywhere, we all have our faults. But children are fairly resilient, they don't all turn out bad - life isn't black and white as you have observed.

I just hope we get to a time when we can look back and say - "blimey how did we let that happen", and not end up saying - "look at how many children's homes we have!".

I honestly believe that most parents want their kids to come out OK in the end, but sometimes they need to learn how to help them get there.

Oh and I'll tell you who shut the youth clubs in my area...the youths who started running battles in the streets outside them...the youths who set upon a 58yr old man walking his dog and stabbed him 7 or 8 times...the youths who set fire to their own youth club after breaking in to steal a couple of quid from the vending machine.

That's who shut our youth clubs down

I think I answered that thread, or maybe not, there are so many going on by saying (obviously with a ) that she/he might as well suggest forced sterilization.

Well said Rhubarb, agree with you 100%.

Mass taking away of children from parents for their own good has always worked so well in the past, hasn't it? Wait, not so much , here neither, or here, or maybe this one?

Which historical example would you like us to follow?

A responsible society - or should I say a responsible government, would channel money into programs that help cut juvenile delinquency. They wouldn't just cut benefits but would use the money saved by setting up back to work schemes that help people who have never worked a day in their lives. They would ensure that employers pay a fair wage so that people are not actually better off on benefits and they would pour more money into schools, social services and the police.

Instead our government takes away all the help and support, they slash police, school and social services budgets, they watch as large companies make huge numbers redundant so they can base their business offshore and escape tax - a loophole the government actually created.

And yet we still prefer to turn on each other?

i see the first one in the dock in Highbury is a 32 year old teacher

hmmm deprived? poor? in poverty? no education?

hmmmm again

Who mentioned MASS taking away of children? I must be reading a different thread...

Yeah we know that Custard, we know that! Of course many of them are freeloaders but that's not the point of this thread. We're talking about the youngsters who should be at home with Mummy and Daddy and the police can't shoot rubber bullets at.

Work should pay. These greedy bosses should be forced to share some of the huge profits with there workforce that has helped them make the money instead of relying on governments to pick up the slack via benefits.

Then wages might be worth getting out of bed for.

'their' not 'there.

Someone I work with thinks that the police should just shoot all the rioters, errrm, isn't that how this started??? But its about much more than that.

Rhubarb - I completely agree with you and you put it very well.

Prisons are overcrowded, no more being built because of a cut in funding. Prisoner programs are also cut. Rehabiliation is cut.

Or perhaps bimbo you meant lock them up and throw away the key? I'd still love to post that comment you made about the scum you help to your workplace.

This thread is NOT about making excuses, it about asking questions. Why? Why did this happen? Why is society turning on itself? Why weren't there enough police to tackle them? Why was half the government on holiday and why did Mr Clegg have to cut short his meet and greet after his presence was greeted with rage by residents. I think it's clear who they blamed.

If we all agreed with bimbo et al then this society would be a much poorer place and we'd be consumed with hatred and resentment.

Who mentioned mass taking away of children? You did! Do you know how widespread these kinds of problems are? It's not just one or two families producing troubled children

Very interesting Busty........

I suspect there will be many more like him/her.

Bimbo - re the exaggerations, twisting of words and what is increasingly looking like bullying.
There must be some reason for such behaviour.............

Busty - the point I was making earlier. It's convenient for everyone to assume that all the rioters were lawless youths as they are easier to hate and blame. But what makes a 32 year old teacher join the rioting?

As I said earlier Rhubarb the vast majority of people I work with feel the same- about SCUM! Not everyone from a certain income or background, but awfully unlawful scummy parents, would it shock you to say many of the social workers ive worked with ALSO believe the same about some of the parents? We are all allowed personal opinion and views and it does not affect what we do for anyone. So get a grip with the 'omg id love to tell your workplace' type ridiculous comments.

Rhubarb....why can you not just disagree with bimbo?
Why do you feel the need to personally attack her and pick on everything she says.

Does it make you feel superior in some way....do you crave esteem?
What is it? It's looking increasingly unsavoury....

"But what makes a 32 year old teacher join the rioting?"

Not the fact that they don't have a youth club to go to, that's for sure.

Rhubarb why do you keep singling me out? You are getting very personal and im not sure why? Is it because im not afraid to voice my views and kowtow to you?