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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that the riots in Tottenham are not in respect of

134 replies

M0naLisa · 07/08/2011 23:51

the bloke shot?

They are acting if not worse than the reason this guy was killed in the first place.

The police must have had their reasoning for shooting him dead. He was known to the police, they had been following him. And on his body there was a fire arm on him. Hmm so the rioters saying 'were doing this out of respect'

No your not your doing it to complete and utter arseholes. If he wouldnt have been shot by police he could have gone on to shoot someone else.

Think the police need to step down now and let the army take over, hose them down!! Like they do in Ireland.

OP posts:
Original poster
M0naLisa · 07/08/2011 23:52

Sorry aibu to think this. Blush

OP posts:
Bohica · 07/08/2011 23:56

There are riots now in Enfield. That can't be because of what happened in Tottenham.

Original poster
M0naLisa · 08/08/2011 00:04

They will be following suit.

OP posts:
squeakytoy · 08/08/2011 00:25

The rioters scum, are just looking for a way to thieve and loot, and be violent.

The people being hurt most by their actions are not the police, but their own neighbours, families, and innocent folk. They are animals, and I agree, bring on the water cannons.

intelligenceitself · 08/08/2011 00:40

A legitimate protest has been hijacked by gangs from all over North London. They are enjoying it, not thinking of the father of 4 who will never take another breath

bubblesincoffee · 08/08/2011 00:41

yanbu, these people are scum who would use any excuse, and if anything they are being disrespectful to the deceased, whose family don't want their loved one to be associated with the riots.

Ryoko · 08/08/2011 00:51

You trust the police?, after the number of times they have been known to lie?, after the number of times the "independent" police complaints commission has failed to bring the law to book over their actions?.

From what I heard the police claim shots were fired, they claim an officer was shot in the radio thus the officer wasn't hurt at all. but word on the street is the man was not armed at the time, he kept his gun in his car and wasn't anywhere near it.

After all the lies, after the electrician shot in the head 11 times on the tube train after an officer had arrested him, after a mentally disturbed man who called the police himself saying someone with a weapon was after him was shot in the street, after a naked man was shot in his house, after a newspaper seller was knocked down with a baton and later died you trust what they say?.

Those who started this shit are the angry people, why are they angry? that needs to be addressed, why don't they trust the police? why do they feel that justice is never done?. all those questions need to be looked at by those in power, by the lazy mayor who refuses to return from his holiday to confront the anger and the issues surrounding it that are very deep seated, this man who was shot came from the estate, tensions run high in such a place, the people feel rejected and put upon at every turn, if he done wrong then we have a system that deals with such things, no one has a problem with that as long as the system is seen to be fair which it isn't.

ignore the looters they crawl out at the advent of any act of chaos, simple opportunists, the involvement of such people getting in on the act shouldn't distract attention away from the real issue. things need to be addressed, the resentment isn't restricted to North London and get sparked anytime.

TheLadyEvenstar · 08/08/2011 00:53

This evening the riots have hit
Brixton - with 200 youths attaking police
Croydon - where apparently clubs went into lockdown with patrons inside on Police advice.
Wandsworth - not sure whats happening there
Walworth Road - again not sure whats going on there either.

Original poster
M0naLisa · 08/08/2011 01:07

The police had been following him, he was from a well known gang 'apparently' Some of the 'friends' commnting on new reports and newspapers that he was in a with the gangs.

OP posts:
TheLadyEvenstar · 08/08/2011 01:14

brixton will follow?

Ryoko · 08/08/2011 01:17

So being a member of a gang is a reason to be killed is it? what crime did he do? where is justice? where is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law?.

At the heart of this is distrust of the police, they act as judge, jury and executioner. there is no faith in the IPCC, when ever they are mentioned it's pretty much a given that no one will be held to account, all they do is apply the white wash. it needs to be tackled the IPCC is a joke that needs to be replaced by a truly independent body that actually does hold individuals to account if they have done wrong and make them pay for their actions, then maybe people will start to trust the police.

pineapple70 · 08/08/2011 02:07

People are becoming poorer and feel increasingly disenfranchised. London's like a big tinderbox. How it started is less important than how it might end.

AmberLeaf · 08/08/2011 02:29

Im with Ryoko

Now they are saying that the bullet in the police radio was a police issue one.

Was Mark Duggan even armed?

Morloth · 08/08/2011 04:19

I think you have to be really careful before calling the Army in on the citizens of your own country.

Sets a precedent that I seriously doubt many people in the UK will want to live with.

I have no idea what is going on in London at the moment, but it doesn't surprise me, the tension was rising well before we left last year and I think it is going to get worse before it gets better.

But using the Army against its own citizens is a very bad idea indeed. It all sounds like a good idea while it is 'them' rioting but next time it might be you protesting and if the Government feels it can attack its own citizens then you have lost something precious.

Andrewofgg · 08/08/2011 06:57

it's just an excuse for criminals to go looting. Water cannon, please.

MmeLindor. · 08/08/2011 07:05

Agree with Morloth.

And until it is ascertained how Mark Duggan died I an withholding judgement.

He may have been a petty criminal and a gang member. He may have deserved arrest and a fair trial. He did not deserve to be shot.

And if it turns out that he was no where near his gun? Where will all the 'serves him right, he was scum' posters be then?

Those rioting are opportunist criminals and should be dealt with by the police. Bringing the army in will only escalate the matter.

The worrying thing now is, will the unrest bring unconnected anarchist to London, those who are not protesting but using this an excuse to riot and loot.

QueenCee · 08/08/2011 07:08

So ryoko you think the police randomly go around shooting innocent people for fun? Really? Being part of a gang means he would have been involved on some pretty nasty, violent behaviour.
The officers involved will be automatically suspended with the threat of losing their job hanging over their heads for months.
You should be grateful there are officers who are prepared to kill to protect us.
People like you love to hate authority. I'd be fascinated to know your alternative to police....a completly lawless society where people can do what the hell they please.
How anyone can justify the actions of the rioters in this mans name is beyond ridiculous... It was not in his name, it's an excuse for blatant criminality. His family are devastated this has happended.... This riot was not in his name, how is burning innocent peoples home "making your point and demanding answers?"
ryoko you should be ashamed of yourself

Mitmoo · 08/08/2011 07:17

Agree with Morloth................He did not deserve to be shot.

Is this the one who is reported to have shot a policeman who wasn't injured because the bullet hit his radio? The one who reported texted his girlfriend that he was being chased by the feds before he was shot?

EdithWeston · 08/08/2011 07:18

I commented on this AIBU thread last night: AIBU to not understand how being angry over someone's being shot makes you burn someone unrelateds home.

Mark Duggan's family have condemned the rioting, said they don't want him (his memory) associated with it, and called for it to cease. Anyone who is engaging in what the olive are now calling "copycat criminal activity" is showing this bereaved family no respect whatsoever, and their actions are devastating for the unrelated families burnt out of the it homes or whose businesses are destroyed.

Amberleaf: there has been no confirmation about which weapon fired which shot, and it is still only one outlet which is reporting that. So I'd be cautious, and not draw conclusions yet. There has however been confirmation that there was a non-police weapon at the scene.

M0nalisa: following on from your comment about radios, could I point out that in UK police officers wear their radios on their chests. A shot to the chest (if that is what happened) is an immensely serious act.

Morloth: there are well trodden procedures for calling in the Forces. It's called MACP, and I cannot think of a time when it's been used lightly.

MmeLindor. · 08/08/2011 07:24

Mitmoo
There are doubts as to whether he fired the shot that hit the radio of the policeman. According to today's guardian, it may have been a bullet from a police weapon.

And I am not defending him. As I said, iif there was grounds to suspect him of being involved in illegal activities, then he should have been apprehended and charged.

It is right to question if the police were too hasty in firing their weapons.

The police can and should be questioned if there is reason to believe that they acted too hastily or unreasonably.

Which doesn't have anything to do with the rioters, who are using the shooting as an excuse.

Morloth · 08/08/2011 07:27

I don't know whether he deserved to be shot or not.

I just don't think it is a very good idea at all to use the army like this as the OP suggests.

A civil force is one thing, martial law quite another. And martial law isn't that many steps away from water cannons IMO.

I hope it all settles down, but it has been brewing for ages.

Mitmoo · 08/08/2011 07:33

Of course the police should be questioned, no doubt about it but everyone agrees these scumbags don't give a monkeys about the shot man it is thuggery for thuggerys sake.

Innocent people have lost absolutely everything, what if they start another riot to riot against the rioters. It just achieves nothing.

EdithWeston · 08/08/2011 07:42

MACP is not synonymous with martial law.

There is no/no provision for martial law in UK.

(Unless, I suppose there was a military-led coup d'Etat,, but I can't really see that happening).

Mitmoo · 08/08/2011 07:45

I don't really care who quells the rioters, but they can't destroy innocent people's homes and businesses. These idiots have to be stopped by army or police or both. Personally I don't care so long as they are stopped.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 08/08/2011 07:46

There's very little connection between the shot man and the subsequent trouble. As usual, criminals take any opportunity as an excuse to commit crime. The London gang culture that results in so many young men lying dead of bullet or stab wounds means there are plenty of people out there willing to smash a few windows and take a pop at the police.