In this day and age to think

[BimboNo5]

An establishment like 'Hooters' is pathetic and wrong?

I suppose we all have different views on 'Hooters' and the like. I don't see it as 'harmless fun', nor do I see it as 'degrading women'. I see it as completely pointless and insignificant. If women want to do that for a living (and they DO have the choice, there is plenty of bar/restaurant work elsewhere), they can.

Whatmeworry - of course it is

Just like not liking porn is all about body/faked orgasm envy...

BDSM I always thought not liking porn was about fear of fanny depilation :o

(sorry, I just can't take this thread seriously)

Don't make me laugh when I'm giving you cyber stern looks, Whatme, it's distracting.

If no women chose to work in Hooters there wouldn't be a Hooters so no problem. We need to stop blaming the company and start blaming women.

No TiggyD we do not need to "start blaming women" - there is far too much of that going on already

Actually I think you'll find this was said earlier in the thread -

"you can find anyone you want attractive. However when you are paying for it, which you are here, its just a lesser form of prostitution in effect, thats when you get into a whole different ballgame. "

Unless I'm mistaken this implies that attractive people, sorry, attractive women who work anywhere (including bars and restaurants) are making money from their looks and are basically the same as prostitutes.

Also, I'm sure you will tell me I'm making this up too but when you say things like "most people in your aquaintance" and "quite the reverse in my social circles", you seem to be implying that 'your people' are better than 'my people'.

Please don't presume to know anything about the 'sort' of people that I know or what they think because you are probably wrong.

You didn't actually answer my question about whether you thought that 'Butlers in the Buff' was harmless fun, you just tried to turn the question back on me!

extremepie you say above "Please don't presume to know anything about the 'sort' of people that I know or what they think because you are probably wrong."

I have made no presumptions here - you are the one that has done this by presuming I think the people in my circles are better than those in yours. I don't think this. I simply sought to challenge your notion that most people think Hooters is "harmless fun".

I am afraid that yes you are mistaken in your inference that all staff in bars and restaurants are the same as prostitutes. Yes in the sense that they are all human beings, that bit is the same. After that you're on your own.

I don't know anything about "Butlers in the Buff" nor am I minded to research it.

you are very much mistaken, try thinking a little deeper about it.

It's rather like the difference between sleeping with someone for fun and having sex for money. Presumably thats just harmless fun too though?

What Siamo said.

Its not about a woman using her sex her appeal. Its about a corporation built on exploiting womens sex appeal. Its about a business that relies purely on womens bodies to bring in customers, and makes money by using women only for their appearance.

You're having the wrong argument.

I have a problem with women's sex appeal being commodified e.g. used in paying work. I think women dressing scantily and flirting and whatever is fine in everyday life, but when it becomes part of a power dynamic e.g. involves money, I don't think it's fine. Which is why I disagree with those here who say that Hooters staff in their skimpy clothes is the same as any woman on a beach in a bikini/on the high street in a cropped top.

And, again, what Siamo said! x-post ...

Siamo, you were the one who made the comment in the first place! You were the one who implied that anyone who uses their sexuality or looks to make money is basically the same as a prostitute so I'm not sure where you confusion comes from.

Sleeping with someone for fun is fine. Sleeping with someone for money (depending on your viewpoint) isn't. That is my personal view. Neither have anything to do with waitresses serving food in a restaurant wearing a tight uniform.

I'm sorry but from what you said I don't see how it was me making the inference, it was quite clear from the tone of your post. I
never actually said that most people think its harmless fun, I was merely refering to that comment someone else made earlier.

Just so you know, Butlers in the Buff is basically naked men wearing short aprons waiting at events and parties. You can see everything except the junk. Personally I think that is much 'worse' than fully clothed women serving food but because its a man I'm guessing a lot less people will have a problem with it!

No I didn't, yet again you misunderstand the point. The women in Hooters are not wearing what they want on their own time. They are wearing what they have been told to, what has been designed to use their looks and objectify them as much as possible. This is done to make money for other people. Not for them.
Someone else is using womens bodies to make money. If you can't see where this fits on the spectrum that includes strip joints and brothels then I really can't be any clearer.

I have no desire to see "butlers in the buff" open up anywhere near me either, but since the historical and ongoing connotations regarding bodily exploitation are not as applicable to men I care less about that.

extremepie please re- read your own post of Mon 08-Aug-11 09:03:57 where you say "I'm sure most people would say that is just harmless fun"

BIMBONO5 - please go on the OBJECT website. I am a member and trust me you are not the only woman who doesnt want to put up with it.

Squeakytoy, if men were objectified half as much as women in society i may agree with you. However, they are not and they wouldnt put up with it.

Hooters is just another money making joint. I am not a prude but i like to have a sense of respect and places like Hooters, strip joints just make the idea that women are available and 'up for it'. I do not like to call scantily clad women gimmicks.

Squeakytoy, is there anything you would see as sexism or is everything in the garden rosey?

I hate to do this but yes you did - sun 07 Aug 11 12:35:09, that was when you commented about it being a 'lesser form of prostitution'.

EFA, if you'll re-read the thread, Bimbo says but this is just passed off as 'harmless fun' - that is what I was referring to, I was not the first one to make that comment :P

So there!

Oh, and because it's a man obviously that means his body is not being exploited in any way and nudity in the workplace is completely fine.

That's equality for you!

Also you portray all men as basically perverts and twats. Not sexist at all!

If you're going to just make up posts to answer there really is no point talking to you at all. Why don't you argue with your wall, you might even win then.

Sorry, are you implying that I'm making up posts to back up my arguement now? So you're saying that you didn't post that? Just because I'm capable of going back through the thread and finding the post I'm referring to doesn't make me stupid.

Oh well, if you have to resort to insulting me in order to make your point sound credable I feel quite sorry for you :)

Fortunately I am able to make my points known without insulting anyone :D

No I'm not implying it, I'm quite openly stating it.

And its a spectrum, see? Actually, no, I give up. Enjoy your "Hooters"!

Fortunately Hopeforthebest everyone on the thread is obviously completely able to differentiate between sex trafficking and working at Hooters. Its odd that you have got the idea that anyone might find that a difficult differentiation to make and I have no idea who your arguement is with tbh - I think you need to start a new thread to discuss this with someone who disagrees.

You ask the question "There are women who are happy to wear a tight tank top and shorts while waitressing and there are people who are happy to be served by them. Who is being exploited here?" This thread is about the issue that there are more people involved in and affected by this situation than the employers, employees and customers of Hooter. The sad answer is every woman in society. Even sadder is that some women are still unable to see the truth of this as they have been brainwashed and blinkered by the patriarchal status quo.