To feel very upset that I wont ever know what it feels like to give birth naturally?

[SchrodingersMew]

I've had a horrible couple of weeks. Had problems with fetal movement, hospitalised as they thought I was developing pre eclampsia and now almost unbearable pain due to Hypermobility Syndrome and the weight causing problems with my hips.

From the start I have wanted a very natural birth; only G+A, water birth, skin to skin etc. But was told yesterday while I was in MAU that they don't recommend I birth naturally and also not to go to 40 weeks as it will cause too much damage to my body. So I will be booked for a Csx sometime between 36 and 38 weeks.
They have also referred me to the psych team as they think I will get PND due to not coping with the pain, I don't know if this is also a reason for telling me to go earlier as I am obviously not in a decent state of mind and had a bit of a break down in the hospital yesterday.

I know I should be relieved that I now will have a date and that I will be in less pain but I can't help to feel upset that I wont know what it feels like to experience a vaginal birth. I have been reading all the birth stories on here the past couple of weeks and it has been getting me excited.

I know I am probably being UR and should just be gratefull that everything is being done to make sure me and DS are safe. :(

Rolling, what you said about my other thread is totaly unfair. Why are you bringing other threads into this. Thats not really the done thing, is it? To say, oh well, that person is unsympathetic, becasue they've been on thread where they've been supported.
Yes, I had lots of great support, which I was grateful for.
Op, has had lots of fab support too. Including my 2 or 3 posts to her.
And no, I don't think my post was insensitive.
People post in all sorts of ways. Supportive. Explaining similar positions. Some post practuical steps. And others actually disagree. And some say YABU. And all sorts of things inbetween.

Oblomov, I totally agree with you, people do disagree with each other and that's what I did with my post in relation to yours. You brought up your situation in detail if you read your post.

I don't want to argue with you on someone else's thread (or at all, I'm sure you're a nice person :)). But, to be fair you posted a pretty strong opinion. I think you knew that because you said yourself it was very harsh and so it's not surprising you'd get a response from someone that might disagree, I think I did so respectfully.

Anyway, I'm not trying to be offensive so will leave it there. Oh, and by the way, I'd like to look like Julia Roberts too but am more Dawn French right now :o

Agreed. No problem.

Sorry I haven't been around to answer posts in a couple of days, I have been trying to get my head together.

Oblomov, I appreciate your opinion and am sorry you have had to go through so much but I really am not coping and I don't think any amount of being kicked up the arse right now will help me.

I know that I probably should be more grateful and that I should just get over it and be happy I am even having a child in the first place but at the moment it's hard to think like that.

Over the past couple of days I actually started feeling complete relief about being told to have a section, but yesterday I went to my hospital appointment and got a consultant who is clueless. She didn't see why I would be at risk of any damage or a rapid labour and told me she would be wanting to induce me at 38 weeks. After coming round to the idea of having a pain free birth with little risk of damage to my body I am gutted. She said if I decide on a section at the time I can have one, but now I'm worried if I go before 38 weeks and have a rapid labour I wont have the time to decide on the section and could end up with dislocated hips and not even be able to enjoy my time with my newborn properly because I will be in too much pain and wont be able to move properly.

She told me I can bring it up with my own consultant at my next appointment and see what they say.

I really don't think I can cope anymore, I really don't. I'm getting to the point where I feel suicidal and I really can't handle being pregnant anymore, all I want to do now is cry constantly and I don't feel like I can talk to anyone. I know my DP definitely doesn't understand the place I am in at the moment no matter how I try to tell him.

Also, I'd like to thank everyone again who responded to this thread, I am very grateful for all the advice and tbh, just having people around to listen.

Schrodingers, I'm really sorry you're having such a hard time. I think you should talk to your GP about this or go directly to a counsellor. It's totally reasonable to be struggling with your feelings in this situation but you need to take care of yourself for you and your baby.

I know post natal depression is well known but depression during pregnancy can be a problem so I think you really need to talk to someone professional about this as soon as possible - I would make an emergency appointment with your GP and tell them about the suicidal feelings. If you don't feel able to do that then have you thought about talking to the Samaritans - 08457 90 90 90.

You can come and talk on here anytime and we will all be here for you but I think you need to get someone professional to help you through this because you deserve to enjoy your pregnancy and baby and shouldn't have to feel this way. Sending hugs. You can do this x

Thanks Rolling, I just have lost faith in talking to anyone professional... After being told one thing and then another from someone else I don't know what to believe.

Yesterday they didn't even have a record of me being referred to the care team, the only record they had is when I asked to be referred at my booking appointment 20 weeks ago... No one ever got back to me on that either. :(

That must be really frustrating - I can understand why you've lost faith. Perhaps you could find a counsellor unconnected to any of your medical care so that you can talk things through on your own terms? I think your GP should definitely be able to refer you to someone if that's easier, if your GP doesn't take you seriously then you can ask to see a different one (but I'm sure they should take you seriously as this is not an uncommon situation).

I totally understand how hard it is when you have a partner that doesn't understand too. My DH was of the 'well you and the baby are healthy and that's all the matters' frame of mind and while rationally he might be right it couldn't have been less helpful or relevant to me. The point is you feel the way you feel for valid reasons for you and that's all that's relevant.

I've phoned MAU and asked them to make sure I have definitely been referred to the psych team. The woman I got on the phone was someone I had met when I was on the ward and she said she understands how I must be feeling about this as she has seen my notes and said she is going to find a consultant to talk to to try and sort everything out. She said she will phone back this afternoon. Hopefully, just hopefully. :)

And having a partner that doesn't understand is horrible isn't it? They just judge by what they see on the outside and that's all that matters.

That's great, I hope she gets back to you soon but please phone again if she doesn't (you shouldn't have to I know...).

Yep it's the man (gross generalisation I know) thing of wanting things to be tangible and being able to fix everything. I think the concept for some people of just talking about something even if it can't be 'fixed' is confusing. I know that's how my DH is. I feel like saying 'if it was something that could just be fixed I would have come up with the solution myself, I just want to talk about it and be understood and sympathised with!'.

She hasn't got back yet. :(

And I completely agree, I think also it's the if he can't see what's wrong then it can't be that bad.

Thanks for keeping replying. MN is keeping me semi sane at the moment.

Hopefully it's just general hospital slowness and you'll hear from her soon (phone her up and keep on her case if not, even if you don't feel like it :)).

Sometimes it helps to be able to talk to someone / people sort of anonymous doesn't it, easier than in real life sometimes. I think counsellors can be a bit like that too because there's none of the baggage of years of relationships / history etc.

No, you're not unreasonable to think what you are thinking, and you're being confronted with it a lot earlier than some others, like me.... I was going to have a water birth - there weren't going to be any problems - I'm not exactly small built - so should be a doddle. In the event, things weren't progressing with dilation as quickly as they should, and I got stuck on a drip - 5 hrs later 1 more cm further on I decided that I'd be in no fit state to push at 9am the following morning without some more painrelief than the tens machine - went for epidural. Anyway, to cut a long story short, forcepts failed (in fact, only bothered to get one on then gave up as ds was apparently clearly stuck) so had emcs. Yes, missed out on the 'actual' vb, and to some extent felt that I had 'failed'. Not that anyone said that to me (in fact the Consultant came to say that he gave up on forceps so quickly as it was clear that ds had been moving down and then pinging back up - so I had been pushing correctly!). However, that all pales into insignificance when you have your new baby actually there in your arms. Ds had a nice long feed in the recovery room - so clearly didn't have any ill effects on him either.

Don't assume that you will get PND - but please get as much help as you can now and afterwards to help!

Rolling I think it definitely is easier to talk online. I think it's the whole not having to look faces, it feels like you are just writing in a diary....

I've been scared to talk to real life people as well incase they think I'm unfit to look after my child or I end up with SS involvment. This really terrifies me, to the point that it is stopping me talking to people.

Mistle I'm glad all was okay in the end. I am now very welcoming to have a CS however I have hit some complications with conflicting advice. :(

It's strange last week I was terrified of a section and now I'm terrified of having a VB...

I really, truly don't think people would think you're unfit to look after your child, so many women suffer depression both pre and post natal (and worries and fear about the birthing process) and it's very much something that you can get help for.

I do understand why you would worry about it though because when you're in that state of mind then everything feels like something to worry about and it feels like there's a negative slant on everything, like you've got a cloud over you (I'm not assuming you feel like this, just remember these types of feelings myself). It makes it hard to see the more likely positive outcome which just makes it even harder to feel better.

I think it's completely reasonable you were scared of one thing and now are scared of another, you had time to get used to the CS idea and now someone has suggested potential change to you, that's completely normal. Especially when you're pregnant with all those hormones whizzing around!

Please don't let fears of SS stop you from getting help to feel better, it really will be ok but I do think talking about it is the best thing - hear and professionally. You will just be joining thousands of women that have sought help over something like this and started to feel better.

I meant 'here and professionally' duh, sorry!

Firstly, unmumsnet hugs. Huge ones.

Secondly, I can state categorically that depression is not a reason to refer to SS. Nor does it mean you cannot look after your child or be a wonderful mum. You are totally understandably not coping with a difficult pregnancy and a lot of pain. There are also safe in pregnancy antidepressants which the perinatal mental health team can prescribe and which are very effective, if you choose to go down that route. One - amitryptaline- also works well for some times of pain an can be sedating for some hence is taken at night. I know all this having spent years working with perinatal MH teams in my job.

Third, if you've not heard back from preg team see your GP and ask for urgent referal - he will not think you're an unfit mother-to-be but that you're experiencing what upwards of 15% of pregnant women go through.

Feelfree to PM me if you want to vent off the public board.

Lots of warm thoughts and hand holding xx

Also NICE guidelines for antenatal depression suggest urgent referal for counselling which should be way quicker than 'normal' and can also help, just to vent even. Again, it takes a lot for MH professionals to refer to SS even in cases of psychosis, so please don't let that fear be a barrier to getting support.

They phoned me back after speaking to my consultant whom I have never met.

Apparently my Consultant said to them that she doesn't think I should have been referred to the peri natal mental health and that I should have been referred to the normal psych. They're also unwilling to speak about delivery at this point in gestation.
I wont even find out who they are going to decide to send me to for another week...

I'm just worse now after this, because I'm not normally like this, it should be the peri natal mental health because I wouldn't have these problems outwith pregnancy.

Thanks for the hugs and hand holding. :)

Consultant talking bollox - you're right, I needs to be perinatal MH as many generic psych cons won't prescribe in pregnancy. Would def suggest seeing GP in morning, maybe print last 25odd posts from this to give him if explaining is a struggle? Ask for referal, urgent, and explain just how low you feel - suicidal thoughts in this situation are quite understandable and won't lead you to be carted off! But you will need to be honest.

Re not discussing delivery, that's very tough on you to have so little certainty. Will you medical cons contact preg team for you?

The Consultant who commented about me being referred to the wrong place and not discussing delivery is actually my Ob/Gyn Consultant and the person I was told I need to talk to about delivery options.

I don't think getting the GP to refer me will make any difference as my Consultant will probably just cancel the referral again.

Schro I know exactly where you're coming from, ended up speaking to the duty psych at my section pre-op. Terrified it would mean referrals to SS, other psychs, special jackets that do up at the back... As it was, he was lovely and it was so good to get a lot of stuff off my chest.

I think if you were to go to a psych (of any description) and tell them that the mucking about you're receiving has given you thoughts of ending it all, they'd step lively and set the wheels in motion to sort things out. I agree with InFlames suggestion of taking this thread with you. Print it out (the whole thing if you can) and highlight the bits you really want to discuss.

Incidentally, feel somewhat of a fraud on this thread as DD2 was a successful VBAC (hurrah!) on Monday, but as far as your uncertainty goes on which birth route scares you now, if I ever have DC3 it'll be by section...

Also: PLEASE don't end it all. I know it seems tempting now, I was there a week ago. But there's a lot of people here supporting you and wanting you to make it to the baby-cuddling end of this, whenever and however that may be. I'd be happy to chat off-thread (or IRL if you're local and felt up to it) - just make sure you keep talking.

Have a very un-mumsnetty >>>hug

Yes I second the Ben and Jerrys idea. Those two are great counsellors :o

I think if you see someone, whether your GP or the psych team and are very honest you'll get the help you need, and we're all here cheering you on.

OB/GYN cons can't cancel referral to perinatal MH from GP - the MH tram will accept the referral independent of the OB team if that makes sense - with them, yes, but not at their beck and call. Failing that, because things are pretty damn tough, GP can refer to regular psych who can see you as an emergency and will refer over and above OB/GYN.

I totally get that you must feel pretty let down by the team working with your preg but there is help and support there. Doand you deserve it. Do you have a good friend of close family member who can go too?

Another vote for B and J here :-)

Nothing particulrly helpful to add Schrodinger just sending some hugs. Loads of good advice on this thread.

I had a vaginal birth - mid pregnancy I got sucked into the whole hypnobirthing thing/natural birth schpiel and while it was v interesting (and I did a lovely birthplan and got v upset when I was told I was too fat highrisk for a water birth I got quite down (but was not battling the pain you're in) and I do believe the hypnobirthing mp3s did help me endure 24 hours labour at home (but only 3.5 cm dilation) before I begged the labour ward to take me in, I don't think my birth could be called a 'real birth'. Birth plan went out the window (almost literally - I remember imperiously commanding xDP not to show it to the midwife because I was now wanting an epidural - only mention of epidural on birth plan was me being adamant I did not want one )

But despite it not being a 'real birth', once I had my lovely baby none of that mattered - I know nothing of the pain, 'ring of fire' finale etc. because I spent the last few hours of labour in a pleasantly shielded state of mild discomfort (and itching - turns out I'd be a crap heroin addict because opiates make me itchy) which I am deeply grateful for so while I'm hats off to the natural birthers for having higher pain thresholds or smaller babies or more forgiving uteri or whatever it was that got them through it, I am not at all worried about having missed out on that experience.

But I think the most important thing is to be (a) informed (so you can make choices on the fly, and DP should be informed too if he has to make choices for you) and it sounds like you are doing your research; and (b) flexible to whichever birth you get/have and try and focus on the best outcome - a healthy baby and a healthy you, hard though it is when you're in pain.

I would recommend the hypnobirthing mp3s (they have e-cs ones as well) for relaxation and preparation and just to lift your spirits in terms of looking forward to a time when you have your baby in your arms and it's all you care about. I know it sounds a bit woo but if you can fast forward in your mind and visualise that (or even write about it) then it might help you solider on in the meantime. More hugs. Hang on in there.