to think this has made my vegetarian daughter ill?

[musicposy]

and should I be cross with my BIL over this?

Most Saturday nights we go down to my sisters house and my BIL, who is a very good cook, makes dinner for us. They come to us regularly too, but it's usually pizza at ours!

Anyhow, DD2 (11) has been vegetarian for nearly 4 years now and also eats virtually no dairy, only eggs. This was her choice entirely and I've always respected that; she's growing well, thriving and is never ill - until today.

Sis and Bro-in-law have always made no bones about the fact that if she was theirs, she wouldn't be "allowed" to be veggie and they think I pander terribly to her. I have to remind BIL to keep vegetables/ potatoes etc separate for her. I know he thinks I am making a terrible fuss and gets a bit huffy about my requests.

Anyway, DD2 has been quite ill today with diarrhoea and stomach cramps. We couldn't think what it is and then DD1, who helped BIL cook, says she thinks that BIL cooked the veggies/ fried/ griddled stuff in the fat and pan he'd cooked the chicken in. DD2 told me she'd thought it had a horrible taste but didn't like to be rude - I don't think it occurred to her it wouldn't be vegetarian (she just has the veg without the meat there normally).

I suspect it is this which has made her ill - does this sound crazy?

Also, I don't know whether to mention it to BIL (who could have just forgotten, I guess, though it seems unlikely), or whether to just take a LindaMcCartney meal each time now and microwave it. I don't want to fall out with them but I am a bit cross if he took it upon himself to decide it wouldn't matter. AIBU?

If it tasted bad then maybe something was off. I doubt the fact that there was meat in the fat would have caused it unless the meat was off, is anyone else who ate the meal ill?

I'd ask him how things were cooked in a neutral tone. It's not unreasonable to ask.

It's difficult to say really - I'm not sure but it's unlikely that the chicken fat will have made her that ill tbh. Unless she has had some kind of intolerance to it?

But you aren't BU to tell him it's not up to him to decide!

Has anyone else who ate there been ill?

A few years ago my friend gave up red meat for Lent. Afterwards he was looking forward to a massive steak but found it really difficult to digest and didn't enjoy it at all.

It is possible, but I dont know how likely it is. I have heard that if people are vegetarian for a long time that eating meat can make them ill because of some of the additives/hormones/antibiotics in meat, but it sounds like the quantity of chicken that she would have ingested would have been minimal.

YABU I doubt the food fried in a bit of fat would have made any difference.

Chicken doesn't produce much fryable fat anyway

I've been vegetarian for a long time, and food cooked with meat or chicken stock gives me D&V now. I've eaten it unknowingly a couple of times at friends' houses when they didn't think that it counted if it was in a soup.
So the fact that it affects me, even when I don't know what I am eating may mean that I now have an intolerance.

I doubt she is ill as the meat has made her ill. But could she be stressing about possibly having eaten meat, albeit just the fat/juices? She could have twigged that that was what the 'horrible taste' was. I am veggie, and certainly at 11 could have gotten quite emotional about that - to the point where, yes, it could have upset my stomach.

I know it can be annoying cooking separately for veggies, so if he can't be bothered, why not take food along for her?

Also - is she def getting enough nutrients, esp calcium, iron and Vit B12? She wont be if she's just eating veg, she will need to pointedly seek out those nutrients in other foods...

I've known veggies to become ill having inadvertantly eaten meat or meat products, so yes, it is possible AFAIK.

I'd certainly be... ahem... monitoring or asking questions. We don't eat meat either and if anyone deliberately gave us meat (or in my case, dairy too) products they sure as hell wouldn't be sharing our company again.

The flora in the gut of vegetarians is different, so starting to eat meat suddenly would make you unwell. It seems unlikely that a tiny bit of chicken fat could make that happen, but I don't know.

No, nobody else was ill (well not from our family, I guess I haven't asked sis!)

I did read somewhere that eating meat can make you ill after a long time without it, but I expect the people who say it would be a minimal amount and make no difference are being a bit more logical than me!

My son has been veggie for 18 years, but occasionally (on a night out with the lads) will have a spicy chicken burger because he can't get anything else. It has never made him ill. I think it must have been something else that caused it.

Yes, I get vomiting and cramps if I accidentally eat meat or meat fat, it's to do with gut enzymes. The gut produces the enzymes it needs to digest the foods you eat, that's why it's important that babies have a wide range of foods to build up the enzymes.

If you eat meat your gut produces enzymes to digest it. When you stop eating meat you no longer need those enzymes so they stop being made. Same works in reverse (if you stopped eating meat and ate lentils, you'd know about it).

So yes, it's perfectly likely that that is what has done it. They need to learn a little respect that others don't have to live exactly like they do

DBF yes, I don't know about meat, but I was a strict vegetarian (i.e., vegan diet though not lifestyle) for 7 years. I remember the first time I ate cheese again - only a little parmesan on top of pasta - it wasn't pretty.

I don't know if just chicken fat would do it, but it might, if it is richer than what she's used to.

But honestly, I don't think this is your real problem: your sister, your own sis, actually said she wouldn't be 'allowed to be veggie'? For real?

Because I wouldn't be having dinner at anybody's house who told me what I (or my family members) were or were not allowed to eat.

Yeah, the chicken fat would just shoot through her, bless her.

AnansiGirl, that's interesting, so it is possible.

Hazel I did think about it being emotional but I don't think it had occured to her until DD1 mentioned it tonight, unless subconsciously.

DogsBestFriend, I will be monitoring very closely from now on! I don't really want to fall out with them - I get on so well with my sister, but certainly I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to respect DD2's beliefs.

LadyThumb he isn't veggie then is he? There's no such thing as a vegetarian who occasionally eats meat is there surely?

I would guess, though I have no biological nous (nor am I veggie) that if the OP's daughter has been meat free for four years, then it's quite possible that meat fat could upset her tummy

ladythumb- really?! most places do veggie burgers. failing that, pizza? i'm surprised a veggie would find himself having to have a chicken burger. maybe he actually just likes them!

IME, yes, this could make her feel ill (was veggie for 20+ years). Poor thing. I think quietly bringing along your own food for her would also be a good idea - they obviously don't take DD's choices seriously so take it out of their hands.

Perhaps it was a genuine mistake?

"your sister, your own sis, actually said she wouldn't be 'allowed to be veggie'? For real?"

Yes, they have quite a different view on child rearing to me, which I guess is their perogative. My nephew is very well loved and cared for but they think they are older and wiser and therefore they make the decisions. He's not really allowed much choice in his life, in my opinion. But I think she thinks I am ridiculously lenient and mine get away with murder. So, just different parenting styles I guess. I don't get into too much argument over it, it's not worth it.

Nope, there's no such thing as a vegetarian who occasionally eats meat. None whatsoever.