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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think this has made my vegetarian daughter ill?

128 replies

musicposy · 24/07/2011 23:28

and should I be cross with my BIL over this?

Most Saturday nights we go down to my sisters house and my BIL, who is a very good cook, makes dinner for us. They come to us regularly too, but it's usually pizza at ours!

Anyhow, DD2 (11) has been vegetarian for nearly 4 years now and also eats virtually no dairy, only eggs. This was her choice entirely and I've always respected that; she's growing well, thriving and is never ill - until today.

Sis and Bro-in-law have always made no bones about the fact that if she was theirs, she wouldn't be "allowed" to be veggie and they think I pander terribly to her. I have to remind BIL to keep vegetables/ potatoes etc separate for her. I know he thinks I am making a terrible fuss and gets a bit huffy about my requests.

Anyway, DD2 has been quite ill today with diarrhoea and stomach cramps. We couldn't think what it is and then DD1, who helped BIL cook, says she thinks that BIL cooked the veggies/ fried/ griddled stuff in the fat and pan he'd cooked the chicken in. DD2 told me she'd thought it had a horrible taste but didn't like to be rude - I don't think it occurred to her it wouldn't be vegetarian (she just has the veg without the meat there normally).

I suspect it is this which has made her ill - does this sound crazy?

Also, I don't know whether to mention it to BIL (who could have just forgotten, I guess, though it seems unlikely), or whether to just take a LindaMcCartney meal each time now and microwave it. I don't want to fall out with them but I am a bit cross if he took it upon himself to decide it wouldn't matter. AIBU?

OP posts:
Ambergambler · 25/07/2011 13:09

EricNorthman - they do serve ham. They also serve beer. You cannot make assumptions, and certainly not guarantees when you haven't got your facts straight. Puffin - they do indeed serve bacon at breakfast as well.
Plenty of camel available too Hmm
I was actually with her in Tunisia and saw for myself, and consumed said bacon for breakfast! Grin

Ambergambler · 25/07/2011 13:11

7 is young to make a choice, but it is up to the OP as the parent to decide if she allows it. That isn't the purpose of the post ( feeling the need for shelter before the thread spirals out of control! )

WhoseGotMyEyebrows · 25/07/2011 13:19

Is a 7 year old capable of making the decision to consume animal products in their diet?

Love that!

I actually have great respect for your daughter OP, that she is intelligent, sensitive and aware enough to want to do that, despite what her family and probably her friends eat. She sounds very mature.

If my DCs want to make that decision at some point I would completely support them. To force a child to eat meat even if they don't want to is rather disgusting sleepindogz. For me when I really realised where meat came from (head in the sand before that) I couldn't bear the thought of putting a bit of animal in my mouth. To force someone to do that is no better then suddenly forcing them to one day eat beetles/butterflies etc. Would you want to do that? It become a replusive idea. To force it is abusive IMO.

doggiesayswoof · 25/07/2011 13:20

the DD is 11, not 7.

It's already been said here, but eating animal fat or dairy if you are not used to it can make you ill - cramps, diarrhoea, bloating etc.

(I was fine when I had a fish supper after 9 years of being veggie, but just because it doesn't happen in every single case, it doesn't mean it never happens.)

doggiesayswoof · 25/07/2011 13:22

Yep. I don't force my DC to eat anything they don't want to eat, and that would include meat, deffo

IMO making them eat something against their will is much worse than leaving something out of their diet (as long as they still get a decent varied diet obv)

cheesesarnie · 25/07/2011 13:24

ive ben vegetarian for 20 years.a friend once accidentlyHmm put ham in my food.i had d and v.
ds2 has never eaten meat except at a friends party when he was told the cocktail sausages were vegetarian!the parents of birthday child thought i was over reacting when i asked if he'd somehow eaten meat,he'd had bad d and v so i was trying to find out why.they apologised and said they didnt know it could have that affect!

WhoseGotMyEyebrows · 25/07/2011 13:26

doggiesayswoof She was 7 when she made the decision.

Scholes34 · 25/07/2011 13:29

The OP's DD was 7 when she made the decision.

I do force my children to eat things they don't want to. In my DD's case that includes peas and carrots and salad and other veg now and again instead of just baked beans with every meal, which would be her choice.

TastyMuffins · 25/07/2011 13:31

Not easy to ever figure out the real reason she is ill, so long as it's nothing major it's not worth investigating in my opinion.

How about getting DD to prepare her own vegetarian options rather than a processed ready meal if going to family who don't cater for vegetarians? I think if your DD decides to eat differently to the rest of the family it should be her that is asking if she wants things different to how they are usually done.

I don't eat meat but never bother with asking how things are cooked, I wouldn't like someone poking and prying about how I cook things and I know plenty of meat eaters who make a point of putting the meat and vegetables together.

If I go to a family meal with meat eating family members, I usually take a vegetarian dish that can be shared round so everyone can try some if they like. My family is a mixture of vegetarian and meat with everything!

edam · 25/07/2011 13:41

I'd be furious with BIL if I were in your shoes. He has behaved with contempt for your dd and actually made her ill by his selfish, underhand actions. (I doubt very much the D&V is a coincidence that just happened to hit at the same time as the first occasion of eating meat for four years).

Tell him what has happened, what the consquences of his behaviour has been, and then explain that you will be bringing your own food for dd in future because he can't be trusted.

Whatever people may think about an 11yo being a vegetarian, it is not our job to decide for your dd and it is extremely nasty to punish her by making her ill.

edam · 25/07/2011 13:42

(And I just love all the people at the start of the thread who merrily said 'oh, it won't be the chicken' without bothering to check their facts.)

JanMorrow · 25/07/2011 13:52

I doubt it is the fat he cooked the veg in that was making her ill to be honest, but as a vegetarian I would be quite upset if I'd eaten vegetables smothered in animal fat, the very thought makes me queasy. I'd gently remind your BIL that he should cook them in vegetable or olive oil, it's not difficult. He probably just didn't think.

People forget and do use stuff like gravy (the non vegetarian kind) or yorkshire puds (made with animal fat) but I just have to decline these things, I'm pretty easy going and will just go without parts of a meal rather than making a fuss. I don't think any of my friends or family find it a pain, they respect my views and choices.

Scholes34 · 25/07/2011 13:54

I doubt there are many meat eaters out there who would smother their vegetables in chicken fat.

WhoseGotMyEyebrows · 25/07/2011 14:41

Scholes34 I do force my children to eat things they don't want to.

You FORCE your children to eat things they don't want to?! How exactly do you do that? By prising their mouths open and poking it in, or by bribery? Forcing someone to eat an animal when they don't believe in it is a pretty dispicable thing to do (and completely differenet to gentle encouragement to eat veg) and your children wouldn't thank you for that when they are older.

WhoseGotMyEyebrows · 25/07/2011 14:41

Scholes I doubt there are many meat eaters out there who would smother their vegetables in chicken fat.

Really? Potatoes that are cooked in with the roast chicken for example.

TimeWasting · 25/07/2011 14:56

I don't doubt the chicken fat would be to blame. I've been omnivore for years, but I can't eat a KFC without a serious visit afterwards.

eurochick · 25/07/2011 14:57

Re: Tunisia, are you aure it wasn't beef bacon and turkey ham? That is what has beem served at hotels in Egypt, Malaysia and other predominantly muslim countries I have visited.

Ambergambler · 25/07/2011 15:07

Euro: could't be sure on type of bacon (it wasn't particularly good!) the ham did seem to be ham though, and the beer was definitley beer! Either way my vegi friend much preferred the option of beer to the vegi dish with ham Grin

When we were speaking to local people, they said that some of the hotel owners were not muslim, and introduced things that would not be available in other places. Some restaurants did not serve alcohol in the town either.

EvenLessNarkyPuffin · 25/07/2011 15:10

Tunisia and pork

Original poster
musicposy · 25/07/2011 16:25

Feels this thread is spiralling out of control somewhat (I did suspect this) but anyhow..

She's absolutely fine today. So whatever it was, it was short lived. I am going to leave the status quo as it is but take a ready meal another time, just in case.

She was 8 when she decided to be veggie, for what it's worth. I said in my OP she'd been a veggie for nearly 4 years which is true - she'll be 12 in a couple of weeks.

When she became veggie she'd done some reading and suddenly realised properly, I think, where meat came from. One day we were just stood in the supermarket in the meat aisle and she said "I can't eat dead animals any more, I just can't, please don't make me. I'm going to be vegetarian."

I said that was OK, but she had to do it properly; I didn't know much about it but we would research together to make sure she got a healthy balanced diet. We did lots of finding out together. To a certain extent, she has educated me; we eat a large propertion of veggie meals nowadays and I'd say we're all healthier for it. DD1 and DH would never agree to becoming veggie; I take that as their perogative as much as I do DD2s.

People who say she should have been forced to eat meat - why? It's been a brilliant decision for her. She's grown like crazy and is on a much better height and weight centile than she was as a meat eater when she was very, very tiny and off the bottom of the chart for weight. A lot of people who'd doubted my decision quickly saw how well she thrived on it. I guess the food just suits her better. She's scarily healthy and is never ill which was why yesterday was a shock!

Anyhow, this is all by the by. I'm well aware there are people in the world who, for whatever reason, wouldn't allow their children to make this choice. But I did, and I think that I did the right thing by her. Others are free to think differently. Grin having made that decision years ago, I really only wanted to know if this could have caused her to be ill or not. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. I doubt I'll ever really know, but I will be more careful in the future when we eat anywhere out.

Calcium, for whoever asked, she has lots of nuts, pulses, green leafy veg and fortified soya milk. I think her diet is probably OK. :)

I think I've said all I need to say really on this thread. Thanks to all of you who gave me your personal experiences, it was interesting. :)

OP posts:
Scholes34 · 25/07/2011 16:32

I was responding to doggiesayswoof who doesn't force the children to eat something they don't want to. My DD doesn't want to eat broccoli, and there are many similar things she doesn't "want" to eat. But she's not going to get away with that.

Scholes34 · 25/07/2011 16:34

Chicken fat's not the best thing to cook potatoes in and I certainly wouldn't drizzle it over my veg. And "believing in eating meat" in easy enough to do, as we have the teeth for it.

valiumredhead · 25/07/2011 16:34

YANBU it's to do with gut enzymes as mentioned upthread. Apparently if you eat fish your gut will be able to cope with having the odd 'slip up' but if you are very strict and don;t eat fish then you will react like your dd did.

WhoseGotMyEyebrows · 25/07/2011 16:43

"I can't eat dead animals any more, I just can't, please don't make me. I'm going to be vegetarian."

Wow that's exactly how I felt about it but I was 16! Your daughter has a mature head on her shoulders. Mine happened the same way. It just hit me that eating meat was the wrong thing to do.

WhoseGotMyEyebrows · 25/07/2011 16:45

Scholes34 My DD doesn't want to eat broccoli, and there are many similar things she doesn't "want" to eat. But she's not going to get away with that.

Heaven forbid she should get to make some of her own choices in her life. You know what happens when kids have all their choices and freedom taken away . . . they rebel! Good luck!