to rather intensely dislike Harriet Harman?

[grovel]

Naggy and bossy at the same time. And so tribal.

I have no idea why. Some women just have a malicious attitude towards men.

No - you have a malicious attitude to some women, and you attribute them with this shit.

How do we prove a rape happened? I'm not a detective or a forensic scientist, but similar techniques to how we prove murder happened or assault happened, I should think.

If you had to bet your life on whether a victim was lying or the accused was lying, you'd be WAY better off betting on the victim. They lie significantly less often.

However, that's a false dichotomy.

There is no conflict between the LEGAL concept of 'innocent until proven guilty' (which means no punishment until the crime has been proven beyond all reasonable doubt) and treating a victim as a victim. You don't see people treating burglary victims as potential liars until the burglar is found guilty in a court of law.

I have no idea why, but it happens.

Rape is a terrible crime but convicting innocent men of it is not going to stop it happening.

We convict hardly any guilty ones, let along innocent ones.

Who is in favour of convicting innocent men? NO-ONE! Can you even show me a story in which a woman accused a man of rape and got it taken to court and it wasn't true? The idea that this is something that happens with any sort of regularity is just a misogynist lie!

Meanwhile, LOTS of women who HAVE been raped see their rapists walking around free from consequence.

"How do we prove a rape happened? I'm not a detective or a forensic scientist, but similar techniques to how we prove murder happened or assault happened, I should think."
You know as well as I do that rape is a lot harder to prove than murder or assault. It always comes down to one persons word against anothers.

Can you even show me a story in which a woman accused a man of rape and got it taken to court and it wasn't true?
www.independent.co.uk/news/media/press/woman-jailed-for-false-rape-claim-2225627.html

That took about 2 seconds to find.

It's amazing that rape has the ability to throw up all these doubts that don't seem to arise in other non-sexual assaults. How many cases of men assaulting other men go through the courts? There's often alcohol involved and it's one person's word against the other, but where are the comments about how he's only saying it to get back at the other bloke or how can you take his word for it?

False rape claim, yes. Taken to court? Nope. He got arrested. Big difference between that and court.

He was named in the press as an alleged rapist. Do you think that is fair when he did absolutely nothing wrong? Do you think men like him deserve to suffer because "so many other men get away with rape"?

This woman is being named as an alleged murderer.

This couple are being named as alleged child abusers.

This is the way the legal system works.

The landlord of murder victim Joanna Yeates was named questioned as a suspect and the suspicion lasted for weeks.

I'm reading this and can't believe how jouvenile the so-called feminists are about the whole rape issue. This country has done loads in the past 20 years to improve the cause for rape victims, including special training for police, better support for victims etc. Why can't people be mature enough to just accept that rape is an incredibly difficult thing to prove? Why do people have to look for scapegoats? It's pathetic.

'So called feminists'

"ah but rape is special evenless - now why would that be?"
Because it is the only crime where what happened is not an issue, whether there was consent is the defining point.

Sorry, juvenille?

For not wanting the victims of rape blamed?

For not wanting a woman who goes to the police and says she's been raped to be accused of being a liar?

For not wanting women to thave to take "responsibility" for men raping them?

Most of the issues with proving rape lie with public perceptions. We may have come a long way, but it's by no means far enough. If you call seeing the injustice in that juvenille, then hell, we're as juvenille as you can get. I personally call it wanting to see some justice in this country.

Yes, so-called feminists. Genuine feminists are out to support all women. HH type feminists are just out to win an argument (and, in the case of HH, further her own career.). There is a difference.

Sorry... Are you saying we're just out to win an argument?

You really have no idea, do you...

Did you not know this is the official home of the So Called Feminist (SCF) debating society. We have scorecards and everything.

Have I won? Have I? Have I?

Don't patronise me DontCallMePeanut. I'm saying that the spouting that I have heared from the so-called feminists on this board is an insult to the huge efforts made by the police and other authorities in recent years in trying to tackle rape. I know a couple of coppers through friends. Believe me, rapists are next only to paedophiles in terms of who they would like to see banged up. They put huge efforts into securing convictions but for a whole host of reasons - one person's word against another, the consent issue, the fear of women coming forward and going to court etc - it is just very hard. Which seems fairly obvious really. Well, to some of us anyway.

No one on this board has accused the police of being unsympathetic. The problem is with the law and the courts. The same is true of DV. These days the police take it very seriously but they are let down by the justice system.

You get the shiny 'Debator of the Day' badge.

It has a picture of a straw woman on it.