to rather intensely dislike Harriet Harman?

[grovel]

Naggy and bossy at the same time. And so tribal.

Yes, well, the clue is in the word 'stereotype'.

But, seeing as I quite like a good debate, let's assume hypothetically that the stereotype is true. Does it matter? Child abuse victims are predominantly children. Does that mean adults shouldn't campaign to stop it?

Stereotypes... Bloody hate the things. They're so often wrong.

It doesn't matter at all - I'm just always suprised when it's denied.

So if it doesn't matter, why bring it up?

I brought it up because HerBex denied it.

It's just a nonsensical argument.

When black people in America started mounting resistance to slavery, the majority of slaves didn't want to know. They felt it had no relevance to them and that things were better as they were. It took time for consciousness to be raised and the majority of slaves to rebel. It took even longer for the legislation to change.

Black slavery was in existence for a far, far shorter time than male exploitation of women, which has been going on for millennia.

Even if the stereotype was true (which it isn't), that doesn't mean feminism has no relevance to non-white, non-MC women.

Sunshine, I feel you won the debate some considerable time ago.

But if you want to shoot fish in a barrel....

and the reason the stereotype persists is two-fold:

1. Anti-feminists like to perpetuate it (witness Doris)

1. White MC feminists are considered more 'media-friendly' than their working class, non-white counterparts, who do terrible things like speaking with accents.

Thank you LineRunner

It just seems a bit hypocritical when feminists go on about the patriarchy being full of White middle-class men, when the feminist movement is predominantly White middle-class women ( women like HH ) that's fine - I couldn't care less what your background is if you're passionate and are trying to improve lives - but all some feminists do is sneer at lesser educated women, and that's not very nice is it - it's the less fortunate you're supposed to be fighting for - so maybe if you spent less time with your noses in the air and more time listening to the common woman - greater things could be achieved?

Who's sneering at whom? I've noticed all the feminists on this thread sticking up for ALL women. Of all colours and backgrounds.

The only sneering at women I see is from the likes of you, Doris and maurice, who claim that women are less ambitious, have never had it so good and are making a big fuss about nothing.

Which feminists are these, sneering at lesser educated women?

Because I don't see it.

I've been sneered at, by the non-feminists, for believing more young women are turning to feminism.

I've been sneered at, by the non-feminists, for being a single mother, with a son.

I've been sneered at, by the non-feminists, for being a feminist.

The feminists take me as I am. Especially on the feminism board, where, hell... We get a lot of flack. But they accept me over there, even if I am pretty feminine, love the colour pink, or whatever else I believed would piss them off.

I'm not talking about this thread - I'm talking generally.
You ( generic you ) think some women are just not intelligent enough to understand feminism - that's not true. >

hh had inverse elocution,appear less posh.more working class.down wiv da kids
shes lord such and such daughter cant be arsed Google but she posh

What does her class have to do with this, SM? A lot of MP's do have links to people of power; eg, related to lords, ladies and whatnot

you asked,hh alludes in her spoken vocab to something she isnt
she actively sought to change and manipulate her accent to another associated not with her peer background

The fact that she felt the need to wear a stab vest while going on a walk (surrounded by security) round her consitutency just says it all to me. She's been parachuted into a safe seat (she has absolutely no roots in the area) so she can use her position to further her extreme feminist causes.

Seriously, do you think she'd fare well in a Labour seat in any region where she actually had to campaign in order to get re-elected?

her class is mentionable as is
stab vest and special branch to visit kebab shop at 5pm

TartyDoris you are aware aren't you that most front-bench MPs hold seats in constituencies they have little or no connection to? It's one of the more dubious 'perks' of gaining a top position and applies to all political parties.

I'm loving the idea that since we've managed to expose the feminist myths for what they are on this thread, the anti-feminists have now resorted to 'generic' insults. Isn't that a bit like the racists who say that the black bloke down the road they know is ok and "not like the rest of them"?

Speaking of racism, it provides another good example of why people who fight against prejudice get death threats and need protection. Martin Luther King, Malcom X anyone? The reason feminists like HH get death threats is because some people would rather the subjugation of half our population to continue unabated. There's too much profit in it.

BTW I'm sure a few feminists are a bit snobby, the same way quite a lot of people are generally. That's because of who they are, not because of their feminism. As a political movement feminism is actually one of the most inclusive - seeking as it does to better the lot of women generally, including numerous campaigns to help working class, disenfranchised women.

But we can't let facts get in the way of a good feminist bashing, can we.

I'm not anti-feminist. I believe all people should be treated fairly and equally and would fight for equal pay etc. I'm also not anti-establishment - I believe in marriage. A lot of feminists are middle-class, anti-establishment, left wing, up their own arse idiots, ( 'I'm so cool man' ) with no real concept of what the average woman wants - the vast majority of women want the security of marriage and think men are essential in their lives, and the lives of their children -
Feminism has done some brilliant things - but as TD said, the movement has been hijacked by a few man hating women with their own agenda.
And that's a shame.

The UK Feminista map of feminist groups in the UK lists plenty of groups in traditionally 'working-class' areas. I think they'd be suprised to hear your opinion, FFP

And could you please name those man-haters who have 'taken over' the movement? I haven't come across them.